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Bob Shoop owes PSU $891,856

Besides that, it makes no sense. Let him leave and collect $900k or fire him so he can go for free? Gee, tough choice.

Didn't say PSU's corrupt, OGBOT-hired, hack, jackal lawyers "make sense", but please do tell how they were "making sense" when they said they didn't fire Joe when they plainly had....or when the repeatedly said their goal wad "transparency" and "full disclosure" with the Alumni and Public when the diametric opposite was their goal?

You really believe that the PSU hack Lawyers doing stupid arrogant things, lying about it and having the resultant situation make no apparent sense is something new for these incompetent, hacks???
 
Yea, just like the corrupt, hack PSU lawyers freely admitted they fired Joe....:rolleyes: BTW, Shoop DID SAY he was fired without cause effective immediately and PSU stopped paying him in violation of the contract as evidenced by paystubs! (He also registered a counter claim that PSU owes him $75K under the "Reciprocal Liquidated Damages Clause"). IOW, he has absolutely made the claims you say he has not made - go figure!
Actually, he said he believed he was fired without cause...that's a bit different than saying you were fired.
 
Yea, just like the corrupt, hack PSU lawyers freely admitted they fired Joe....:rolleyes: BTW, Shoop DID SAY he was fired without cause effective immediately and PSU stopped paying him in violation of the contract as evidenced by paystubs! (He also registered a counter claim that PSU owes him $75K under the "Reciprocal Liquidated Damages Clause"). IOW, he has absolutely made the claims you say he has not made - go figure!
He said that only after the university sued him, and he's at a minimum trying to get the buyout reduced, so his motivations could be questioned. If he was fired, why did Tennessee make a big deal about Shoop taking care of any "buyout," and put it in his contract? There would be no "liquidated damages" to pay PSU if he was fired.

If Franklin wanted Shoop gone, he could have just fired him. After all, he fired Donovan a couple of months earlier. And a year earlier, he was given a large raise to stay and turn down LSU, and in return they asked for him to commit through the end of the contract, except if he had the opportunity to become a head coach. Hence, the reciprocal liquidated damages clause.

Now, maybe he was told that if he interviewed for the UT job, he better take it, otherwise he would be fired. That they didn't want this constant turmoil and uncertainty of whether or not he was staying or going. He had been offered the LSU job the year before. Auburn came calling, although he turned them down. That new contract had the reciprocal liquidated damages clause, to keep him from the disruption of flirting with every D.C. job out there, while still allowing him to leave for a head coaching position.

Maybe he was told if he didn't get that job, he'd be out, so he better think seriously about interviewing. That's 2 lateral job moves he pursued in a year. But he got the job before he was let go, according to Penn State. According to him, he was "constructively discharged/terminated" before he got the UT job.
 
He said that only after the university sued him, and he's at a minimum trying to get the buyout reduced, so his motivations could be questioned. If he was fired, why did Tennessee make a big deal about Shoop taking care of any "buyout," and put it in his contract? There would be no "liquidated damages" to pay PSU if he was fired.

If Franklin wanted Shoop gone, he could have just fired him. After all, he fired Donovan a couple of months earlier. And a year earlier, he was given a large raise to stay and turn down LSU, and in return they asked for him to commit through the end of the contract, except if he had the opportunity to become a head coach. Hence, the reciprocal liquidated damages clause.

Now, maybe he was told that if he interviewed for the UT job, he better take it, otherwise he would be fired. That they didn't want this constant turmoil and uncertainty of whether or not he was staying or going. He had been offered the LSU job the year before. Auburn came calling, although he turned them down. That new contract had the reciprocal liquidated damages clause, to keep him from the disruption of flirting with every D.C. job out there, while still allowing him to leave for a head coaching position.

Maybe he was told if he didn't get that job, he'd be out, so he better think seriously about interviewing. That's 2 lateral job moves he pursued in a year. But he got the job before he was let go, according to Penn State. According to him, he was "constructively discharged/terminated" before he got the UT job.

Wrong, he claims he was fired contemporaneously with his trip to Tennessee for the NOT FOR CONTRACTUAL CAUSE of making a trip to Tennessee which is clearly not a fireable cause. BTW, his pay-stubs support this account and he had not been offered before going to Tennessee so you're notion that PSU had a right to fire him is ridiculous. Again, you still haven't answered me why these same corrupt, hack, BOT-hired PSU lawyers said Joe wasn't fired when he clearly unquestionablly was fired? Why do they say that they are promoting "transparency" and "full disclosure" with Alumni and the public when they have repeatedly illegally pursued the diametric opposite? It wouldn't be because they have repeatedly proved that they are scumbag, hypocritical liars just like their masters who hired them, would it?
 
Wrong, he claims he was fired contemporaneously with his trip to Tennessee for the NOT FOR CONTRACTUAL CAUSE of making a trip to Tennessee which is clearly not a fireable cause. BTW, his pay-stubs support this account and he had not been offered before going to Tennessee so you're notion that PSU had a right to fire him is ridiculous. Again, you still haven't answered me why these same corrupt, hack, BOT-hired PSU lawyers said Joe wasn't fired when he clearly unquestionablly was fired? Why do they say that they are promoting "transparency" and "full disclosure" with Alumni and the public when they have repeatedly illegally pursued the diametric opposite? It wouldn't be because they have repeatedly proved that they are scumbag, hypocritical liars just like their masters who hired them, would it?
I'll tell you what, I'll answer why they said Joe wasn't fired when you answer what your sources are. :)

Nice speaking to you, Bob's lawyer.
 
Wrong, he claims he was fired contemporaneously with his trip to Tennessee for the NOT FOR CONTRACTUAL CAUSE of making a trip to Tennessee which is clearly not a fireable cause. BTW, his pay-stubs support this account and he had not been offered before going to Tennessee so you're notion that PSU had a right to fire him is ridiculous. Again, you still haven't answered me why these same corrupt, hack, BOT-hired PSU lawyers said Joe wasn't fired when he clearly unquestionablly was fired? Why do they say that they are promoting "transparency" and "full disclosure" with Alumni and the public when they have repeatedly illegally pursued the diametric opposite? It wouldn't be because they have repeatedly proved that they are scumbag, hypocritical liars just like their masters who hired them, would it?

His pay stubs, which I'm sure you've seen, could also support a scenario where he and PSU mutually agreed to a resignation effective immediately.

As far as the lawyers involved in drafting his contract, it's highly unlikely that the BoT had anything with the selection of those on the PSU side. You're reaching if you want to cast blame on them. These things are typically boilerplate. If PSU loses this case, it won't be because of a badly drawn contract, but rather ill-conceived behavior surrounding Shoop's departure by members of the Athletic Department.
 
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His pay stubs, which I'm sure you've seen, could also support a scenario where he and PSU mutually agreed to a resignation effective immediately.

As far as the lawyers involved in drafting his contract, it's highly unlikely that the BoT had anything with the selection of those on the PSU side. You're reaching if you want to cast blame on them. These things are typically boilerplate. If PSU loses this case, it won't be because of a badly drawn contract, but rather ill-conceived behavior surrounding Shoop's departure by members of the Athletic Department.

Ah, so you're saying the PSU "lawyers" supporting the HR for the Athletic Dept didn't lie about JVP being fired? Odd because in actual reality, not the PSU Madhatter scumbag world, the "PSU lawyers" actually did indeed lie about the firing and termination of JVP.
 
Ah, so you're saying the PSU "lawyers" supporting the HR for the Athletic Dept didn't lie about JVP being fired? Odd because in actual reality, not the PSU Madhatter scumbag world, the "PSU lawyers" actually did indeed lie about the firing and termination of JVP.

I said nothing about the lawyers who were involved in the firing of Joe Paterno and I defy you to find where I did, you dumb jackass. I would venture to guess that those involved on the PSU side in the drafting of Shoop's contract were not the same, likely from an outside firm, with review done by by a lower to mid-level member of in-house counsel staff.
 
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I said nothing about the lawyers who were involved in the firing of Joe Paterno and I defy you to find where I did, you dumb jackass. I would venture to guess that those involved on the PSU side in the drafting of Shoop's contract were not the same, likely from an outside firm, with review done by by a lower to mid-level member of in-house counsel staff.

Ah, so "PSU's lawyers" that support the Athletic Dept alternatively lie or tell the truth regarding Employee Contract actions and only the Great Oz knows when they are doing which.... Got it, LOL as per usual Ozzy.
 
Ah, so "PSU's lawyers" that support the Athletic Dept alternatively lie or tell the truth regarding Employee Contract actions and only the Great Oz knows when they are doing which.... Got it, LOL as per usual Ozzy.

Good night, Chewie. Will you be gnawing on a Bidjar or a Hereke for your pre-slumber repast?
 
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Ah, so "PSU's lawyers" that support the Athletic Dept alternatively lie or tell the truth regarding Employee Contract actions and only the Great Oz knows when they are doing which.... Got it, LOL as per usual Ozzy.
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Here you go....

James Franklin and Bob Shoop could start the 2018 season in a court room -- and not on the football field.

If Penn State's breach of contract lawsuit against Shoop makes it to trial, it's projected to take place in August 2018, according to court documents filed Thursday in U.S. Middle District Court.

And Franklin would likely play an integral role.

PSU and Shoop both listed him among the parties it will involve in their cases.

Penn State claims Shoop breached his contract and owes the university $891,856, after he resigned Jan. 10, 2016 to take a similar position at the University of Tennessee.

Shoop has filed a counterclaim in which he says he left because conditions were intolerable, and he experienced a hostile work environment. He's seeking dismissal of PSU's suit.

Penn State says it will involve the following individuals in its case: Franklin, athletic director Sandy Barbour, Tennessee head coach Butch Jones, former Vols athletic director Dave Hart and Trace Armstrong, who was Shoop's agent when his contract with the Nittany Lions was drafted. Armstrong is also Franklin's agent.

Shoop's list includes Franklin, his wife Fumi, Shoop and his wife Maura, current Penn State defensive coordinator Brent Pry, Barbour and Joseph J. Doncsecz, vice president for finance and corporate controller at Penn State.

This is Penn State's summary of the case in the court document:

  • Shoop was hired as an assistant coach on Jan. 15, 2014, with a base salary of $600,000.
  • A new three-year contract was executed March 6, 2015, as defensive coordinator at a salary of $850,000 with an additional annual guarantees payment of $150,000 as long as he was employed as an assistant coach.
  • It provided if Shoop resigned, he would pay liquidated damages of 50 percent of his base salary for the remaining term of the contract. The exception would be if Shoop became a head coach within one year.
  • Shoop became an assistant coach at Tennessee on Jan. 11, 2016, at a base pay of $245,000 and an annual supplemental pay of $905,000.
  • As part of his contract with Tennessee, he agreed he was solely responsible for satisfying any buyout or liquidated damages with Penn State.
  • Prior to his resignation at Penn State, Shoop publicly acknowledged his satisfaction with his employment there.
  • At no time was Shoop threatened, demoted, subjected to a reduction in pay, involuntarily transferred or given unsatisfactory performance evaluations.
This is Shoop's summary of the case:

  • Shortly after he was "forced" to sign the employment contract in March 2015, working conditions became intolerable and he experienced a hostile, negative work environment.
  • "On or about Jan. 10, 2016, Shoop was constructively discharged/terminated from, or forced or compelled to leave, his employment with Penn State," thus breaching his contract."
  • The liquidated damages clause in his contract with Penn State is unenforceable and constitutes a penalty against him. Penn State did not suffer any damages by him leaving.
Facts both parties say are in dispute:

  • Whether Shoop experienced intolerable working conditions at Penn State such that he was forced to leave his employment.
  • Whether Shoop experienced a hostile, negative work environment during his course of employment at Penn State.
  • Whether Penn State suffered damages as a result of the ending Shoop's employment.
Legal issues listed as in dispute:

  • Whether the liquidated damages provision of Shoop's contract is legally enforceable.
  • Whether Shoop was constructively discharged.
  • Whether a reasonable person in Shoop's position would have felt compelled to resign.
 
Facts both parties say are in dispute:

  • Whether Soop experienced intolerable working conditions at Penn State such that he was forced to leave his employment.
  • Whether Shoop experienced a hostile, negative work environment during his course of employment at Penn State.
  • Whether Penn State suffered damages as a result of the ending Shoop's employment.
Legal issues listed as in dispute:
The bolded point above will be interesting. Shoop could make the argument the Penn State defense became better after he left therefore no damages were suffered since his replacement did a better job than he did. In essence that potential argument would be admitting he wasn't the best person for the job. Tennessee suffered more damages that PSU.
 
I don't understand this whole thing.

1) Dispute seems to be whether Shoop was fired or resigned. He said he was "effectively" fired by being "forced" to resign. PSU says he resigned.
2) This counter suit does not make Shoop look good. For a guy who aspires to be a head coach, what university would hire him? I think he has damaged his career prospects immensely.
3) What are Franklin and Pry going to say? Certainly they are not going to agree that there is hostile environment. They could testify that Franklin told Shoop to look elsewhere and he was going to promote Pry? Or that Pry would be taking over some of Shoop's Coordinator duties and thus demoting Shoop?

My guess is that Franklin found out and grew tired of Shoop looking around and told him so and maybe even told him to look elsewhere and he was going to promote Pry creating a hostile environment for Shoop. Or Franklin and Barbour told him to sign the contract with the language or he would be dismissed.

Should be interesting how this plays out, but Shoop could be blackballed for this stunt.
 
The bolded point above will be interesting. Shoop could make the argument the Penn State defense became better after he left therefore no damages were suffered since his replacement did a better job than he did. In essence that potential argument would be admitting he wasn't the best person for the job. Tennessee suffered more damages that PSU.

Is the re-payment contingent on PSU suffering damages? I didn't read it that way.
 
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Is the re-payment contingent on PSU suffering damages? I didn't read it that way.

Nope. Liquidated damages clauses are written into contracts so that compensation/non-compensation is quantified automatically on termination, thereby obviating the need of it to be settled in the courts. Guess this one didn't work as intended.
 
Seems pretty simple to me, Shoop thought he'd spend a year at TN and then be a head coach and never have to pay the buyout. But the fact that the head coaching job didn't materialize for him isn't Penn State's fault. PSU is right to enforce the contract. If it were the other way around and PSU owed Shoop a million bucks, you'd better believe he'd have a team of lawyers on it.
 
I think people need to chill about it. It's just business. Shoop probably doesn't have a million bucks to write a check, so for now it's cheaper to pay lawyers to file paper. The only way they can file paper and keep the case going is to try to find a loophole in the contract, and the only one they can find is to claim that Shoop was somehow secretly forced to resign. They're just throwing stuff against the wall and if they can get a couple of things to stick, then they can maybe get into settlement talks with PSU and get the amount reduced. Shoop probably can write a check for $100k. There will be a settlement at some point.

As others have pointed out, this is anything but good for Shoop's career going forward. Which just reinforces my point above, probably Shoop doesn't have the money right now.
 
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I think people need to chill about it. It's just business. Shoop probably doesn't have a million bucks to write a check, so for now it's cheaper to pay lawyers to file paper. The only way they can file paper and keep the case going is to try to find a loophole in the contract, and the only one they can find is to claim that Shoop was somehow secretly forced to resign. They're just throwing stuff against the wall and if they can get a couple of things to stick, then they can maybe get into settlement talks with PSU and get the amount reduced. Shoop probably can write a check for $100k. There will be a settlement at some point.

As others have pointed out, this is anything but good for Shoop's career going forward. Which just reinforces my point above, probably Shoop doesn't have the money right now.
Oh this is absolutely all about his ability to pay and not PSU being hostile to him. The guy thinks contract language doesn't apply to him. He's a bum.
 
Oh this is absolutely all about his ability to pay and not PSU being hostile to him. The guy thinks contract language doesn't apply to him. He's a bum.

I think it's possible he's actually not a bum but he doesn't have $900,000 on him at the moment, so his options are somewhat limited. I think it's unwise to blame PSU and Franklin -- it might make Shoop all but unhireable. But it might be what his lawyers told him is his only avenue if he wants to keep things thing tied up in court.

But anyway I agree with ya, if you don't want to pay a buyout when you leave a job, don't have it put in your contract. It's personal responsibility.
 
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Listen, here's the deal. Shoop was happy. His wife was not. There was an event that created an irreparable situation with his wife and PSU. Shoop, basically, had to make a decision on wife or PSU. (I don't know if they were headed for divorce, but she was headed out of town, with or without him). So that is where the notion of a horrible work environment comes in. So Shoop feels that the situation at PSU was untenable. So he feels he is not owed the money because PSU made the situation intolerable for his wife, which made it intolerable for him.

So he interviews with Tenn, CJF fires/forces him to resign/he resigns by choice (depending upon whom you believe) him, he has this money, PSU sues him for the money, Shoop countersues about the intolerable conditions. That is where it stands.
 
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Listen, here's the deal. Shoop was happy. His wife was not. There was an event that created an irreparable situation with his wife and PSU. Shoop, basically, had to make a decision on wife or PSU. (I don't know if they were headed for divorce, but she was headed out of town, with or without him). So that is where the notion of a horrible work environment comes in. So Shoop feels that the situation at PSU was untenable. So he feels he is not owed the money because PSU made the situation intolerable for his wife, which made it intolerable for him.

So he interviews with Tenn, CJF fires him, he has this money, PSU sues him for the money, Shoop countersues about the intolerable conditions. That is where it stands.
So Sandy made a pass on Shoop's wife???
 
Listen, here's the deal. Shoop was happy. His wife was not. There was an event that created an irreparable situation with his wife and PSU. Shoop, basically, had to make a decision on wife or PSU. (I don't know if they were headed for divorce, but she was headed out of town, with or without him). So that is where the notion of a horrible work environment comes in. So Shoop feels that the situation at PSU was untenable. So he feels he is not owed the money because PSU made the situation intolerable for his wife, which made it intolerable for him.

So he interviews with Tenn, CJF fires him, he has this money, PSU sues him for the money, Shoop countersues about the intolerable conditions. That is where it stands.
CJF never fired him,
 
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