Your first paragraph being very true - he should not have had to change his position. His actions should have been enough that maybe others could attempt to understand his original position.
Bill O'Brien
- Thread starter green2623
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Your first paragraph being very true - he should not have had to change his position. His actions should have been enough that maybe others could attempt to understand his original position.
Armstead and others didn’t jerk their knees but others were emotional. His support means a lot to them do I get it. People piling on from both sides are clueless twits.
As he was raised by two white wealthy parents...yeah, every right. Funny, he didn’t get that way until he started dating his anti-establishment girlfriend...great independent thinker.[/QUOTE]
And he started his protests AFTER he signed a new contract. A real man of principle.
Brees is entitled to his opinion which is shared by many and is as legitimate as those who side with Malcolm Jenkins and others (who is just as entitled to his opinion). Rather than embrace that different opinions are permitted in the USA, instead Brees is shamed for not holding the “correct” opinion. Not at all what a free society is all about. But very much the tradition of a communist/fascist/ totalitarian society like China or Iran. Such is the current state of affairs in the USA where you entitled to Malcom Jenkin’s opinion or Malcolm Jenkin’s opinion. Do you really believe Brees suddenly changed his mind? He formed that opinion over a lifetime and it is rooted in the noble sacrifices of his relatives. I’d be willing to bet Jenkins is plenty smart enough to know better than Brees has had a sudden epiphany. Brees was rolled with a few open-minded death threats to his wife and a public shaming (can’t say I blame him). Jenkins is probably snickering begins his back...others will snicker as well. But I can’t imagine Brees will ever be seen as a leader again. He follower at best...cowerer at worst.
Exactly on the powers to be in Minneapolis...and Chicago...and New York... and Portland...and Seattle. See the pattern? Democrats run every single city... every single one of them...perhaps you should direct your ire in their direction? These paragons of virtue have been in charge of nearly every major city for 50+ years. When are they going to get with the Demlion program?
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Again, you're projecting and are FOS. Jenkins and many others expected better as Drew is good at reading the room and slipped up. Nobody will say boo to him in that locker room. Only an idiot fan would think it's not his team....guess who you are. Even the best leaders make mistakes.....only the great ones can own it. If there is a season this year....come back and tell me again how nobody respects him. Seems to me the only ones upset by his apology aren't his teammates....more often than not they were the ones crying about Kap taking a knee in a peaceful protest.
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So was his mistake having an opinion or expressing it? Just checking.
Next question is, what do those in the stands do during the anthem? Are you a racist if you don't kneel there as well? Also, would it make a difference to some if those that kneel placed their hand over their heart? Just some stuff to think about..
Tell me again how name calling makes someone correct? That is a telltale sign you have lost the argument. And tell me again how the opinion of Malcolm Jenkins is the only one in society that is permitted to be correct. Brees is entitled to his old opinion and his new opinion. But that does not mean is old opinion was “wrong.” Most leaders don’t change opinions at 40+ years old so quickly. Of course most people and their families are not subject death threats and public shaming on a simple subject where there is plenty of room for debate - at least not in free countries. Ask the people in Hong Kong if they are “allowed” to have an opinion.
You will need to check in with LaJolla - apparently he is tbe only one one able to discern correct from incorrect opinions. He will also advise which ones you are entitled to hold. Perhaps after consulting with Malcolm Jenkins.
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Drew was entitled to his opinion and nobody suppressed him either way, but you are upset that he said it was wrong and apologized....not me. Jenkins had every right to question Drew as did others and Drew was open minded enough to see something there he may have missed. Hell Drew called out the POTUS, so is that your comparison to Hong Kong? Think before you make such weak comparisons.
Not everyone can do that and that is why you are so upset with him. He back tracked on what you wanted him to say and apologized. Nobody's opinion was suppressed here, you just don't like that Drew said he made a mistake. You are upset by this and just want to attack Drew for it.....it's kind of funny to anyone who can see right through that BS and you were called out on it. Now you're upset....boohoo.
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Any coach that does not support this will not be a coach for much longer. In the pro sports the players are more important. They want the coach and organization to be behind them on this.
Brees is welcome to change his mind and I could really care less. My only point is that it was changed under duress (death threats, etc.). So I doubt that it is legit. Of course perhaps he has “seen the light.”. I agree with his initial (and likely current) opinion. He would not be the first person and won’t be the last to “change his mind”. (see Germany circa 1934 and Soviet Union circa 1922 and you will likely see some “conversions” in Hong King too) under duress. My sense is that he will lose respect of many (do you think he is the only person who has more respect for traditional American Judeo-Christian values than some neo-Marxist drivel spouted by Malcolm Jenkins and you?) in his locker room and elsewhere. I know that I have lost respect for Brees, but I do recognize that his “ conversion” is under duress. I have respect for people who have the courage of their convictions in the face of mob rule and violent anarchists.
You lost respect for him, oh no. I’m sure you matter in your head. His teammates will still be there for him, but some people that probably never served under the flag and love a leader who can never admit his mistakes are upset....booohoo. A real man can listen and recognize that they may be wrong. Even more so when close family and friends call him out on it as they should have.
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Boohoo? Why would I possibly care if I matter to Drew Brees? I just stated my opinion. And I will my be far from alone in that opinion. Since you are so sure you have a handle on what is right and wrong, perhaps you should issue a manifesto so that all of us great unwashed can learn from your wisdom. And If you would be so benevolent to provide some rationale beyond “well Malcolm Jenkins tells me it is so” - that may help unwashed align behind the power of your truth.
You said he should retire because his teammates won’t respect him even though they said they opposite. You’re upset that he had a change of heart because he listened to his teammates and others. He reached out to people and learned why they were upset. You may not be capable of that. Either way he will be the QB on the team and they will respect him. Call me out when that doesn’t happen, but I won’t be expecting that to occur. More players will be taking a knee and the snowflakes that couldn’t handle it the first third better buckle up.
How will PSU fans react if Franklin and the team come out and take a knee as a team?Would standing for the anthem be bad for him?
I did say that and I believe it will be true. We’ll never really know...but we do know that human beings and all animals sense weakness. And to me, that is what Brees showed - again understandable weakness, but weakness nonetheless. He could use age as a cover to retire, but it’s his choice. Perhaps he will have a great year with all the Saints rallying around the flag kneeling. More power to him and them. I can’t speak for the “snowflakes.” I do respect people for the right to kneel for the National Anthem. But I do believe it is wrong. I do believe it is not “incorrect” to hold that belief. And I worry that this minor disputes about kneeling are playing into the hands of Marxist groups under false pretenses. These are groups that are suddenly seen as “mainstream.” People who buy into this type of behavior are going to be more than disappointed if such groups gain too much power. It may undermine classical, liberal western society as we know it.
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Listened to Dom Giordanno show on WPHT Philly 1210 on Wednesdsy when he reported a story that PSU Admins have authorized the FB team to come out and kneel for the anthem. Also mentioned the BT is okay with this.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
That is so fantastic that you have such great insight!Ummmm hmmmmm. I know it. Those minority bullies in this country....daring to speak up against police brutality and expecting a fair shake. I feel bad for your generation as you grew up under this delusion that the US was so great and fair to everyone and it was pumped down your throat with no way of knowing another reality which did exist. Next up the old get out of the country probably coming from someone who didn't serve for this country and is going to lecture me on patriotism. Don't worry though, it's not just our country....it's global but it took out country to step up and be an embarrassment for it to get the global notice it deserves. You just tell those protesters to keep it down and not ruin your reality....I hear ya.
First off, you have no idea of my age, background, or ethnicity. And no where did I suggest the country is perfect - far from it. But easily the greatest country on earth and getting better everyday.
No where did I say I that anyone should stand for police brutality or any other form of inequity. But try to understand what the facts are vs. what some anarchists are spouting so that they can forward their radical agenda. Read and try to comprehend rather than just issuing some Marxist talking points.
And I am all for the right to peaceably protest - that is a cornerstone of our Constitution. But one aspect is the ‘peacefully’ aspect.
As for your little picture montage - wonderful. Perhaps you should take a closer look into exactly what these groups really stand for and who they align themselves. If they ever do get power, you will see you freedoms shrink dramatically - perhaps even disappear. And then you will be looking around wondering “what happened.” You ability to virtue signal on some message board? That right and many others will be stripped away.
As I suggested earlier, read a little history - I recommend the French Revolution as a nice starting point. And perhaps try and get out and see the world. You might learn a little bit about how the it works, appreciate what you have in the USA, and work to make our country even better.
Oh please, I suggest you read a little history about leaders or parties suppressing votes or the media. It may open you eyes, but you don't appear to be too open mined at all. The vast majority of the protests were peaceful, but you only want to harp on the ones that were not.....because it makes you somehow feel better. It's why you couldn't accept Brees apologizing....you don't accept the countering view.
I’ll say one thing - you are persistent. Using fact free/platitudes only, but persistent. I will be happy to have a civil discussion with you anytime. But I doubt you are open minded enough. Go back and review all your name-calling in this thread. My eyes are wide and I am well-versed on voter suppression and voter fraud - not only in the USA, but globally. But do point me to sources of information - I’ll be glad to check them out.Oh please, I suggest you read a little history about leaders or parties suppressing votes or the media. It may open you eyes, but you don't appear to be too open mined at all. The vast majority of the protests were peaceful, but you only want to harp on the ones that were not.....because it makes you somehow feel better. It's why you couldn't accept Brees apologizing....you don't accept the countering view.
Why don’t you tell me about all the lessons of the French Revolution or better yet - the Great Leap Forward. These are the heroes of the groups you seem to want to align. I bet you have not even read what the modern day groups really stand for. The commonalities are in plain site.
Peaceful protests? Sure there have been some. But there also has been plenty rioting, looting, extortion, and various other forms of lawlessness. And I don’t recall the Constitution making any “LaJolla says it’s ok exceptions?” But perhaps I should go back and check?
As for the global nature of this current phenomenon? I suppose so. I also know that immigrants continue to flood into the USA more than any other by a very wide margin. I guess it is because it is so bad here and and not getting any better?
I’d be interested in where you think the utopias are out there? Have you visited? Talked to their citizenry? Please - what are your assessments?
What about the great leaders of today you so admire? Who are they? Malcolm Jenkins? The converted (or is it extorted) Drew Brees? Kaepernick? What do they stand for?
LOL, you’re still twisted that Brees thinks you’re wrong.....and he is right too. I love watching you get so twisted up because society is now saying what you guys weren’t strong enough to. It’s ok, growth is good for human kind. A fair and equal civilization somehow scares you. That is on you, but project away. So many great black leaders in this movement, sorry that bugs you too.
Personally I wouldn’t take a knee, however would stand right by a teammate with my hand on their shoulder has they knell. I would have the conversation with them ahead of time as well so they know that I am still supporting them, thus my hand on their shoulder right beside them.
I think it is you who are twisted and twisted up. Brees? Why would I care what he thinks? Why would he care what I think? I do think he is wrong, but I am hardly going to lose any sleep over it.
I notice you never even attempt to address my points - just name calling and platitudes.
Fair and equal is what this country was founded upon - imperfectly but our core founding principles - but improving every decade, every year, every day. Does the Declaration and Constitution ring a bell? Where did I ever say I was against that? Nothing could be further from my beliefs.
There are many great leaders - of many races, colors, and creeds. Which ones currently and historically do you think move civilization toward the goal of goal of equality of opportunity. Depending on what country you are in different groups are discriminated against - based on race, religion, skin color, beliefs etc.
In some countries, this discrimination manifests in millions of deaths, elimination of rights, etc.
In this country, it manifests itself in handfuls (not millions) of such issues - not millions. Not acceptable, but better than anywhere else in the world and in history - by a very wide margin.
If you think what is going on in the city takeovers, rioting, looting, arson, vandalism, etc. is an example of great leadership - then perhaps you either in for a very bad surprise for the desired outcome on what you value or you approve of such behavior?
I’d be interested in the leaders and groups you think will lead us to a better place. I am sure it would be revealing.
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I’d simply support their right to do as they please - as long as they support that I am entitled to my view without being told to shut the ‘f’ up. It is ok to not respect what they are doing while still respecting the right to do it.
Look at where the world and US is today. Sorry man, not a winning combo right now. We can do better, sorry that bothers you. Blame a party or anyone not thinking like you do. That seems to be the fix.
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You seemed to determined to create a straw man with which to argue. USA can do better? Who is disputing that. Do you even read my replies? How about some facts and data? How about some leaders that you think are constructive/models.? Countries that the USA should aspire to be like...etc.? What lessons would you derive from the French Revolution? Great Leap Forward? Lesson that we can apply to 2020 USA. Political systems that are superior to the USA? Or are you just going to say I am for inequality? Or call me a name?
You seemed to determined to create a straw man with which to argue. USA can do better? Who is disputing that. Do you even read my replies? How about some facts and data? How about some leaders that you think are constructive/models.? Countries that the USA should aspire to be like...etc.? What lessons would you derive from the French Revolution? Great Leap Forward? Lesson that we can apply to 2020 USA. Political systems that are superior to the USA? Or are you just going to say I am for inequality? Or call me a name?
You keep bringing up the French Revolution like that is your only standard or your only point of reference in the last 300 years, maybe that is your problem. We are passed that. I’m sorry you are uncomfortable that people of color are still treated subhuman in our country or you agree with it. I cannot fix that. Listen to Trevor Noah’s interview tonight for a different perspective, one that is uncomfortable to you. Tell him here he is wrong as a black man or human. You as an older white male just know better,,,,,right? A black male has no real perspective, your opinion is the only one.
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Where have I ever said that I am for any person of any race being treated as a subhuman? Don’t equate the idea that I disagree with you on some key points that I believe certain things - that my is simply not true. I have given you a number of points of reference - not just the French Revolution. You seemed to determined to create a straw man with which to argue. USA can do better? Who is disputing that. Do you even read my replies? How about some facts and data? How about some leaders that you think are constructive/models.? Countries that the USA should aspire to be like...etc.? What lessons would you derive from the French Revolution? Great Leap Forward? Lesson that we can apply to 2020 USA. Political systems that are superior to the USA? Or are you just going to say I am for inequality? Or call me a name?
Where have I ever said that I am for any person of any race being treated as a subhuman? Don’t equate the idea that I disagree with you on some key points with that I believe certain things - that my is simply not true.
I have given you a number of points of reference - not just the French Revolution. And we are not “ beyond the aspects of that event that took civilized behavior off the rails. You have not made a substantive point on anything I have offered up. My opinion has nothing to do with what I am or am not as far as ethninicity or age (you are wrong about quite a bit of your assumption, but that is not relevant). Skin color or religion or ethnicity have nothing to do with a position - sound reasoning does. I will give the Noah interview a listen. You come back with with some feedback on examples I have offered up and will meet you halfway.
Would it really matter? I doubt it. Google his latest interview and listen to his actual answers. You won’t listen to or believe him regardless.
Again, making assumptions...I am ready to listen. Which interview? Who is the interviewer? And are you already assuming that if I don’t accept everything carte blanche from Noah then I am wrong? After you supply me the specifics, perhaps you might want to read “ My Grandfathers Son” by Clarance Thomas?
