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be all end all, ending sentences with a prepositions, is it allowed?

sluggo72

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2006
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a friend makes a post on Facebook about proof reading her kids college essay. The first sentence ends in a preposition, mom freaks out. I respond and include links saying you can do this , that rule is just some myth someone made up. Fast forward I see the Mom last night and can't leave well enough alone. And tell her you certainly can end a sentence with a preposition. She says I am wrong, that this assignment was a 'formal' paper and in formal papers, you can not do this!! I say, lets see what someone like Websters says (see link), they agree. The women says , no they are wrong, they don't understand that this is a formal paper, and triples down on this.

so What you learned scholars say??

 
Not permitted.

This is part of a broader issue I have with the written word.
Today people think and write at the same time.
When handwriting mattered, you would compose a sentence in your head and then write that sentence.
Try writing in cursive the way one types.

So back to the topic at hand.
If you prethink your sentence you would never end it with a preposition.
If you simply write as you think... well it happens a lot.

LdN
 
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There's no rule about ending a sentence in a preposition. We all know the saying, but its not an actual rule.
 
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This is what you care about?

o_O
actually I care more about power spikes in the AC at my marina, but did not think this is the board to ask about it. Now I do know we have many scholars on here. So I thought I'd ask.

and you do know why the mayor in Philly won't reopen the bars, dont you?
 
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When Lou Pinella was manager for the Yankees he went out to argue a call with the home plate umpire.
Pinella asked the ump “ Did you see where that pitch was at ? “
The ump pointed out that employees for an organization like the Yankees should not end sentences with prepositions.
To which Pinella replied , “ Did you see where that pitch was at, asshole ? “.
 
Not permitted.

This is part of a broader issue I have with the written word.
Today people think and write at the same time.
When handwriting mattered, you would compose a sentence in your head and then write that sentence.
Try writing in cursive the way one types.

So back to the topic at hand.
If you prethink your sentence you would never end it with a preposition.
If you simply write as you think... well it happens a lot.

LdN
so you disagree with Merriam-Websters?
 
When Lou Pinella was manager for the Yankees he went out to argue a call with the home plate umpire.
Pinella asked the ump “ Did you see where that pitch was at ? “
The ump pointed out that employees for an organization like the Yankees should not end sentences with prepositions.
To which Pinella replied , “ Did you see where that pitch was at, asshole ? “.
Sir Winston, when one of his speeches was edited said "this is a change up with which I shall not put".
 
a friend makes a post on Facebook about proof reading her kids college essay. The first sentence ends in a preposition, mom freaks out. I respond and include links saying you can do this , that rule is just some myth someone made up. Fast forward I see the Mom last night and can't leave well enough alone. And tell her you certainly can end a sentence with a preposition. She says I am wrong, that this assignment was a 'formal' paper and in formal papers, you can not do this!! I say, lets see what someone like Websters says (see link), they agree. The women says , no they are wrong, they don't understand that this is a formal paper, and triples down on this.

so What you learned scholars say??

Kind of.
 
a friend makes a post on Facebook about proof reading her kids college essay. The first sentence ends in a preposition, mom freaks out. I respond and include links saying you can do this , that rule is just some myth someone made up. Fast forward I see the Mom last night and can't leave well enough alone. And tell her you certainly can end a sentence with a preposition. She says I am wrong, that this assignment was a 'formal' paper and in formal papers, you can not do this!! I say, lets see what someone like Websters says (see link), they agree. The women says , no they are wrong, they don't understand that this is a formal paper, and triples down on this.

so What you learned scholars say??


If you want to.
 
Ending a sentence is inapproproate use of grammar.

It is like driving 30 in a 55Mph zone. Not illegal, but incorrect.

LdN
It would appear that some people are determined to hold on to this rule, no matter how many times they are informed that it really isn’t one. In a similar vein, many people who like to use terminal prepositions will give some mangled version of a quote from Winston Churchill, "This is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put." The linguist Ben Zimmer has conclusively demonstrated that, as is the case with so many Churchill quotes, this was almost certainly never said by him.

If you don’t like to end your sentences with prepositions, you don’t have to—just don’t say that it is a rule. And if you like to end your sentences with a succinct with, go right ahead and keep doing so—just don’t quote Winston Churchill when someone says that you shouldn’t.
 
a friend makes a post on Facebook about proof reading her kids college essay. The first sentence ends in a preposition, mom freaks out. I respond and include links saying you can do this , that rule is just some myth someone made up. Fast forward I see the Mom last night and can't leave well enough alone. And tell her you certainly can end a sentence with a preposition. She says I am wrong, that this assignment was a 'formal' paper and in formal papers, you can not do this!! I say, lets see what someone like Websters says (see link), they agree. The women says , no they are wrong, they don't understand that this is a formal paper, and triples down on this.

so What you learned scholars say??

Stole the bit below from a Reddit post. It's pretty much identical to the version I remember my grandfather telling me:

A visitor to Harvard asks a professor, "Excuse me, but would you be good enough to tell me where the Harvard Library is at?"

"Sir," came the sneering reply, "at Harvard we do not end a sentence with a preposition."

"Well, in that case, forgive me," said the visitor. "Permit me to rephrase my question. Would you be good enough to tell me where the Harvard Library is at, jackass?"
 
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It would appear that some people are determined to hold on to this rule, no matter how many times they are informed that it really isn’t one. In a similar vein, many people who like to use terminal prepositions will give some mangled version of a quote from Winston Churchill, "This is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put." The linguist Ben Zimmer has conclusively demonstrated that, as is the case with so many Churchill quotes, this was almost certainly never said by him.

If you don’t like to end your sentences with prepositions, you don’t have to—just don’t say that it is a rule. And if you like to end your sentences with a succinct with, go right ahead and keep doing so—just don’t quote Winston Churchill when someone says that you shouldn’t.

I never said it was a rule.

LdN
 
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I didn't know that it wasn't a rule. If I'm having a conversation such that the main subject is well known I'll often end a sentence with a preposition. Think emails that are back and forth or posting on this forum. But, I always thought my use of this was incorrect.

Here's another one I recently learned..."W" is sometimes a vowel. Yep, a, e, i, o, u, and sometimes w and y.
I learned that back in grade school 70 years ago.
 
Not permitted.

This is part of a broader issue I have with the written word.
Today people think and write at the same time.
When handwriting mattered, you would compose a sentence in your head and then write that sentence.
Try writing in cursive the way one types.

So back to the topic at hand.
If you prethink your sentence you would never end it with a preposition.
If you simply write as you think... well it happens a lot.

LdN

Today people write and don't think at the same time.
 
I learned that back in grade school 70 years ago.
You must have been in one of those "good" schools. I went to a Catholic school where they stressed math, science, and grammar all day long. I wish your school had told our nuns about this so that our english grammar books could have been updated. My parents paid good money for my book fees. (For those that don't know, students in Catholic schools pay a separate "book" fee.)
 
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Regardless of the present status of this rule (or non-rule), ending a sentence with "at" makes people sound stupid. "Where's the dog at?" Really, doesn't that just sound dumb? Ok, not as dumb as people with their family name painted on a rock outside their house w/ the incorrect apostrophe ("The Smith's").
 
Ok, not as dumb as people with their family name painted on a rock outside their house w/ the incorrect apostrophe ("The Smith's").

You obviously did not grow up on a plantation where only the males could own property and vote.
 
If you want to sound like a dumbass in your college essay, you should absolutely end sentences with prepositions.
 
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You must have been in one of those "good" schools. I went to a Catholic school where they stressed math, science, and grammar all day long. I wish your school had told our nuns about this so that our english grammar books could have been updated. My parents paid good money for my book fees. (For those that don't know, students in Catholic schools pay a separate "book" fee.)

My 1st and 2nd grades were in a one room school. One teacher for grades one through eight.
 
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If you want to sound like a dumbass in your college essay, you should absolutely end sentences with prepositions.

And there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. Making that argument is perfectly valid, there is no need to erroneously attribute it to some non-existent rule.
 
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A preposition is something you should never end a sentence in. 🤪

I think I love you so what am I so afraid of?
I'm afraid that I'm not sure of a love for which there is no cure
 
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I write with the Understanding/belief that ending with a preposition is not proper grammar. That said, what is this rule for?
 
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