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As a Reds fan and a PSU FB fan ... a question that's bugging me

M

michnittlion

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Sep 3, 2003
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Is CJF College Football's version of Dusty Baker?

GREAT locker room guy, players love him, teams have good chemistry.

Also a lousy tactician without that instinct to know how to close a game out. This is now the 6th example of such a game in his Penn State career (Michigan 2014, Maryland 2014, Illinois 2014, Northwestern 2015, USC 2016, Ohio State 2017). Vanderbilt's losses to Tennessee in 2011, South Carolina in 2012, and Ole Miss in 2013 are examples from earlier in his career.

Last night looked painfully like the Reds 2012 NLDS loss to the Giants. It was RIGHT THERE! And we didn't seize the moment.
 
michnittlion said:
Is CJF College Football's version of Dusty Baker?

GREAT locker room guy, players love him, teams have good chemistry.

Also a lousy tactician without that instinct to know how to close a game out. This is now the 6th example of such a game in his Penn State career (Michigan 2014, Maryland 2014, Illinois 2014, Northwestern 2015, USC 2016, Ohio State 2017). Vanderbilt's losses to Tennessee in 2011, South Carolina in 2012, and Ole Miss in 2013 are examples from earlier in his career.

Last night looked painfully like the Reds 2012 NLDS loss to the Giants. It was RIGHT THERE! And we didn't seize the moment.
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NO
 
michnittlion said:
Is CJF College Football's version of Dusty Baker?

GREAT locker room guy, players love him, teams have good chemistry.

Also a lousy tactician without that instinct to know how to close a game out. This is now the 6th example of such a game in his Penn State career (Michigan 2014, Maryland 2014, Illinois 2014, Northwestern 2015, USC 2016, Ohio State 2017). Vanderbilt's losses to Tennessee in 2011, South Carolina in 2012, and Ole Miss in 2013 are examples from earlier in his career.

Last night looked painfully like the Reds 2012 NLDS loss to the Giants. It was RIGHT THERE! And we didn't seize the moment.
Click to expand...
Fair question, but too early to tell at this point. Troubling, though. One thing even you have to admit, Mich, is that in his 40+ years as coach, Paterno teams rarely, if ever, blew leads like we've seen in just under a year.
 
nits74 said:
Fair question, but too early to tell at this point. Troubling, though. One thing even you have to admit, Mich, is that in his 40+ years as coach, Paterno teams rarely, if ever, blew leads like we've seen in just under a year.
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That's true. Our teams definitely had better coached defenses (a product of both our HC and the DCs over the years) in the Paterno era.

College football is not the same thing as Major League Baseball. Certainly can't fire Franklin. But both the 2012 Reds and 2016 Nationals - they should have pulled the trigger right then and there after the NLDS loss. Both clubs doomed themselves to their exact same fate for 2013 and 2017. The 162 regular season was just a prelude to the inevitable for both.
 
michnittlion said:
Is CJF College Football's version of Dusty Baker?

GREAT locker room guy, players love him, teams have good chemistry.

Also a lousy tactician without that instinct to know how to close a game out. This is now the 6th example of such a game in his Penn State career (Michigan 2014, Maryland 2014, Illinois 2014, Northwestern 2015, USC 2016, Ohio State 2017). Vanderbilt's losses to Tennessee in 2011, South Carolina in 2012, and Ole Miss in 2013 are examples from earlier in his career.

Last night looked painfully like the Reds 2012 NLDS loss to the Giants. It was RIGHT THERE! And we didn't seize the moment.
Click to expand...
I don't know, perhaps we could bring Jay back.
 
michnittlion said:
That's true. Our teams definitely had better coached defenses (a product of both our HC and the DCs over the years) in the Paterno era.

College football is not the same thing as Major League Baseball. Certainly can't fire Franklin. But both the 2012 Reds and 2016 Nationals - they should have pulled the trigger right then and there after the NLDS loss. Both clubs doomed themselves to their exact same fate for 2013 and 2017. The 162 regular season was just a prelude to the inevitable for both.
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Yes, but to me that is reason to not fire Baker. As you know, anything can happen in baseball in a short series. Talent doesn't always win out. I think you have to look at a team's performance over the season to better assess a manager.
 
I did not realize that Dusty Baker had started his tenure with only 20 players on his roster and had to overcome such restrictive measures.

Disappointed in yesterdays lost. But come on we lose on the road to a team without our best run stopping DE...replacing him were a true freshman and two redshirt freshman and we lost by far our best OL forcing a hurt Senior to play RT and making a Redshirt Freshman flip to the left side. Hard to run and hard to pass when the line is being buried by 4 Bucknuts rushing. It didn't happen in the first half close to this degree because we had our 1st string OL playing.
 
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PSU Soupy said:
I did not realize that Dusty Baker had started his tenure with only 20 players on his roster and had to overcome such restrictive measures.
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The 2007 Cincinnati Reds were terrible. He built them up. Similar to how CJF built up from some average teams.

PSU Soupy said:
Disappointed in yesterdays lost. But come on we lose on the road to a team without our best run stopping DE...replacing him were a true freshman and two redshirt freshman and we lost by far our best OL forcing a hurt Senior to play RT and making a Redshirt Freshman flip to the left side. Hard to run and hard to pass when the line is being buried by 4 Bucknuts rushing. It didn't happen in the first half close to this degree because we had our 1st string OL playing.
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Nothing but excuses. We were up 35-20 with the ball in OSU territory and didn't rise to the moment to put it away! We were up 35-27 with the ball inside the 5 and AGAIN didn't rise to the moment to put it away!

CJF is good at "tactics" like icing a field goal kicker in a 56-0 game, and making sure we run 1 more play when we're up 42-13 with 20 seconds left on the clock.

But he isn't as good tactically when we're leading but still need those 1-2 daggers to put a game away. It's a pattern. 6th time in less than 4 years here at PSU.
 
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michnittlion said:
The 2007 Cincinnati Reds were terrible. He built them up. Similar to how CJF built up from some average teams.



Nothing but excuses. We were up 35-20 with the ball in OSU territory and didn't rise to the moment to put it away! We were up 35-27 with the ball inside the 5 and AGAIN didn't rise to the moment to put it away!

CJF is good at "tactics" like icing a field goal kicker in a 56-0 game, and making sure we run 1 more play when we're up 42-13 with 20 seconds left on the clock.

But he isn't as good tactically when we're leading but still need those 1-2 daggers to put a game away. It's a pattern. 6th time in less than 4 years here at PSU.
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Not as down on CJF as yourself, but all valid points. Sorry, but no excuse for this or the Rose Bowl losses.
 
nits74 said:
Not as down on CJF as yourself, but all valid points. Sorry, but no excuse for this or the Rose Bowl losses.
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The Rose Bowl started out really bad though. INT on the first play. Yesterday was a way more inexcusable loss. It's up there with the 6-4 loss to Iowa and the 2007 comedy of errors vs. Illinois. It was a total brain fart.
 
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If you are getting whipped at the line of scrimmage there are not many plays that work. If you run and do not make a first down you were conservative if you throw and the QB gets sacks and fumbles or throws an interception then the chorus starts singing run the ball to run out the clock.

Love the coaching staff we almost/could have beat a team with more talent than our team had. One more play by the offense, one more play by the defense and we win and our staff is brilliant. God Clemson lost to Syracuse and Dabo is brilliant.
 
fairfaxlion2 said:
No. But Paterno may have been CFB's Marv Levy
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Apt comparison if you don't consider that he won two of three #1 vs. #2 national championship games. And not to mention, had four other national titles possibly stolen from him due to either anti Penn State or Eastern football voter bias. Other than all of that, you're right on the money here.
 
nits74 said:
Apt comparison if you don't consider that he won two of three #1 vs. #2 national championship games. And not to mention, had four other national titles possibly stolen from him due to either anti Penn State or Eastern football voter bias. Other than all of that, you're right on the money here.
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But if you consider games against Lloyd Carr...
 
In the last Rose Bowl and yesterday, the Lions ran into opposing QB's who just played out of their gourds. Career games for each of them. Maybe some of that can be attributed to the Lions playing a prevent defense in the fourth quarter (prevents you from winning is all it does), to subpar defensive secondary play, or to not generating much of a pass rush, but Darnold and Barrett have never had games like they did in those two respective games.

As frustrated as I am right now, I keep telling myself that tOSU could quite easily lose one of its remaining games, and the Lions just have to take care of business.

If there is ANY silver lining in yesterday's game, I hope it will be that Moorhead and CJF got an object lessen in what the RPO and those frickin' delayed handoffs do to the PSU running game. It just seems ludicrous to me to have Trace and Barkley standing flat footed, four yards behind the LOS, while the defensive front seven is converging on them. How is that ever gonna succeed against a team with a competent front seven?
 
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nits74 said:
True. Anyway, with the Levy comparison I thought you were referring to only championship type games, not cherry picking games against certain teams.
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Joe turned the Michigan game into his super bowl. And he couldn't win it until Carr was gone. It cost PSU at least one shot at a title
 
michnittlion said:
Is CJF College Football's version of Dusty Baker?

GREAT locker room guy, players love him, teams have good chemistry.

Also a lousy tactician without that instinct to know how to close a game out. This is now the 6th example of such a game in his Penn State career (Michigan 2014, Maryland 2014, Illinois 2014, Northwestern 2015, USC 2016, Ohio State 2017). Vanderbilt's losses to Tennessee in 2011, South Carolina in 2012, and Ole Miss in 2013 are examples from earlier in his career.

Last night looked painfully like the Reds 2012 NLDS loss to the Giants. It was RIGHT THERE! And we didn't seize the moment.
Click to expand...
So let me get this straight - CJF gets his team in a position to win as a 7 point underdog on the road and he is the same as Baker who was a heavy favorite to win and lost at home - I don't see it but nice try.
 
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nits74 said:
Apt comparison if you don't consider that he won two of three #1 vs. #2 national championship games. And not to mention, had four other national titles possibly stolen from him due to either anti Penn State or Eastern football voter bias. Other than all of that, you're right on the money here.
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Two of four. Besides the Bama loss, #1 PSU lost to #2 Oklahoma in 1985. Not diminishing the accomplishment. Just pointing out the facts.
 
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fairfaxlion2 said:
Joe turned the Michigan game into his super bowl. And he couldn't win it until Carr was gone. It cost PSU at least one shot at a title
Click to expand...

How so? I think he would have told you that those national championship match-ups meant more than any regular season game.
 
fairfaxlion2 said:
Joe turned the Michigan game into his super bowl. And he couldn't win it until Carr was gone. It cost PSU at least one shot at a title
Click to expand...

Oh, bullshit. Admit you were wrong. Paterno <> Levy.

To say anything else is to be a complete idiot and intellectually dishonest hack.
 
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