Armed citizen neutralizes active shooter.

bourbon n blues

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Nov 20, 2019
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Have there ever been any studies showing what percentage of people carry at any time? City by city? State by state? Legal vs illegal?
It’s very low, most CCW don’t regularly carry . It might be as low as 1%. I saw stuff one time but can’t recall the exact figures .
 

gjbankos

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Jan 16, 2006
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If the police were on site they probably would have tased her.

A good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun about 3 percent of time.
That's because it is only the good guys who follow the gun laws. Loosen up the gun laws and there'd be more good guys carrying. And I don't believe your stat for a second because you didn't provide your source. That is test board rule 1 - provide your source. Here's a stat with a source - in 2020, more armed citizens killed criminals in the act of a felony than cops did. More criminals are afraid of armed citizens than armed cops. Concealed carry laws actually accounted for an 8.5 percent reduction of murders, 5 percent reduction of rapes, 7 percent reduction of assaults and even 3 percent reduction of robberies. Moreover, the data found that there is only one murder per 55,000 rifles owned. American Gun Facts also noted that the average shooting lasts fewer than 12 minutes, but the average police response time is 18 minutes.

You gotta do better than this, Ramble. So you are with me in allowing guns in the classroom? If the reports are correct, and there's question on if they are correct, this shooter in Texas was shooting outside for several minutes before entering the school. If the teachers had access to a gun that is securely stored in the classroom and they were trained on how to use it, do you think we'd have more or fewer casualties than we had in TX? The bottom line is that gun laws will be as effective as drug laws. The bottom line is that believing that law enforcement will save you is a false narrative. History is littered with government failing.


 

rumble_lion

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Aug 7, 2011
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That's because it is only the good guys who follow the gun laws. Loosen up the gun laws and there'd be more good guys carrying. And I don't believe your stat for a second because you didn't provide your source. That is test board rule 1 - provide your source. Here's a stat with a source - in 2020, more armed citizens killed criminals in the act of a felony than cops did. More criminals are afraid of armed citizens than armed cops. Concealed carry laws actually accounted for an 8.5 percent reduction of murders, 5 percent reduction of rapes, 7 percent reduction of assaults and even 3 percent reduction of robberies. Moreover, the data found that there is only one murder per 55,000 rifles owned. American Gun Facts also noted that the average shooting lasts fewer than 12 minutes, but the average police response time is 18 minutes.

You gotta do better than this, Ramble. So you are with me in allowing guns in the classroom? If the reports are correct, and there's question on if they are correct, this shooter in Texas was shooting outside for several minutes before entering the school. If the teachers had access to a gun that is securely stored in the classroom and they were trained on how to use it, do you think we'd have more or fewer casualties than we had in TX? The bottom line is that gun laws will be as effective as drug laws. The bottom line is that believing that law enforcement will save you is a false narrative. History is littered with government failing.



If more guns was the answer then we would be the safest country on earth.
 
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gjbankos

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Jan 16, 2006
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If more guns was the answer then we would be the safest country on earth.
You just can't adult, can you? Your response is really ignorant. Just dumb. How many grade schoolers own guns? There are many reasons why schools are often targeted. And I gave you all the stats you need to know what you are trying to vomit here is just ridiculous.

I'm going to give you one more chance. You can either be the child you typically are or you can try to engage in a real discussion.

So you are with me in allowing guns in the classroom? If the reports are correct, and there's question on if they are correct, this shooter in Texas was shooting outside for several minutes before entering the school. There are reports of him shooting outside the school prior to him entering the school. If the teachers had access to a gun that is securely stored in the classroom and they were trained on how to use it, do you think we'd have more or fewer casualties than we had in TX? The bottom line is that gun laws will be as effective as drug laws. The bottom line is that believing that law enforcement will save you is a false narrative. History is littered with government failing.
 

rumble_lion

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2011
23,137
5,648
1
You just can't adult, can you? Your response is really ignorant. Just dumb. How many grade schoolers own guns? There are many reasons why schools are often targeted. And I gave you all the stats you need to know what you are trying to vomit here is just ridiculous.

I'm going to give you one more chance. You can either be the child you typically are or you can try to engage in a real discussion.

So you are with me in allowing guns in the classroom? If the reports are correct, and there's question on if they are correct, this shooter in Texas was shooting outside for several minutes before entering the school. There are reports of him shooting outside the school prior to him entering the school. If the teachers had access to a gun that is securely stored in the classroom and they were trained on how to use it, do you think we'd have more or fewer casualties than we had in TX? The bottom line is that gun laws will be as effective as drug laws. The bottom line is that believing that law enforcement will save you is a false narrative. History is littered with government failing.

Arming all the teachers is ridiculous idea that only NRA is pushing. There are 130,000 K-12 public and private schools in the US. There are over 3 million teachers in the US. You believe that adding roughly 3 million guns to our schools will prevent school children gun deaths? The kids killed by accidental shootings alone from all these guns will far outstrip any good they might do.
 

Nbergbuck

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Mar 31, 2004
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But how can this be ...the shooter had an AR 15.....I thought they automatically created a huge body count....hmmm maybe it is just SEMI-AUTOMATICALLY
This does not make much sense. However this is the exception not the rule when it comes to what usually happens. The country would be far better off with no AR 15's.
 
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Nbergbuck

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Mar 31, 2004
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Wrong , the most popular rifle in the country’s is app one percent of all homicides .
While that may be true, it is the weapon of choice for mass shootings. Here the idea is to maximize body count. This has to stop. The idea that people kill people, guns don't is true in a sense. However what the gun does is massively increase the deadly capabilities of the shooter.
 

ao5884

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Oct 1, 2019
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This does not make much sense. However this is the exception not the rule when it comes to what usually happens. The country would be far better off with no AR 15's.
It makes sense if u understand the argument the left tries to make regarding what type of weapon the AR-15 is. As far as your "rule" you understand that very few murders that involve a gun are committed using an AR-15 (less than 1%) right? The difference here is the attack was not in a gun free zone and was stopped by a private citizen using her 2nd amendment rights.
 
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ao5884

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If the police were on site they probably would have tased her.

A good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun about 3 percent of time.
And an AR15 is used to murder someone less than 1% of murders. So using your metric a good guy with a gun stop more shootings than an AR 15 causes. Yet from the left we get misinformation regarding AR 15s. The police did nothing but restrain parents from confronting there kids in Uvalde. This woman dealt with the threat and saved lives....would that be possible in a gun free zone?
 
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gjbankos

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Arming all the teachers is ridiculous idea that only NRA is pushing. There are 130,000 K-12 public and private schools in the US. There are over 3 million teachers in the US. You believe that adding roughly 3 million guns to our schools will prevent school children gun deaths? The kids killed by accidental shootings alone from all these guns will far outstrip any good they might do.
You are wrong, Rumble. I am pushing it too and I am not the NRA. It is the only logical thing to do. Again - there are reasons why schools have been targeted so many times for mass shootings.

Yes, putting secured guns in the schools in the hands of trained adults will prevent school children gun deaths far more than what your side is proposing. Your mind is closed to this, which is why you don't understand it. Open your mind up. Your solutions will not work. You know it.
 

bourbon n blues

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Nov 20, 2019
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You are wrong, Rumble. I am pushing it too and I am not the NRA. It is the only logical thing to do. Again - there are reasons why schools have been targeted so many times for mass shootings.

Yes, putting secured guns in the schools in the hands of trained adults will prevent school children gun deaths far more than what your side is proposing. Your mind is closed to this, which is why you don't understand it. Open your mind up. Your solutions will not work. You know it.
Over 90 % of shootings are in gun free zones, why is that?
You know who wrote the bill years ago? POTATUS
 

ao5884

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Oct 1, 2019
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Arming all the teachers is ridiculous idea that only NRA is pushing. There are 130,000 K-12 public and private schools in the US. There are over 3 million teachers in the US. You believe that adding roughly 3 million guns to our schools will prevent school children gun deaths? The kids killed by accidental shootings alone from all these guns will far outstrip any good they might do.
Lets examine the math behind your statement.

Current Average accidental deaths: 492 per year
Number of guns owned in the US: 400 Million.
so 400,000,000/492=813,008.13

meaning there is 1 accidental death for every 813,008.13 guns in the US.

Your Claim is that an extra 3,000,000 guns will far outstrip any good.

so if we divide 3,000,000/ 813,008.13

We arrive at 3.69 accidental deaths from adding those guns

Since 2000 there have been 157 deaths in mass school shootings over 13 incidents.

so if we take 157/13 we arrive at

12.07 deaths per incident.

Meaning that if 1 school shooting is stopped you would save an average of

8.38 lives more than the lives lost to accidents with firearms

in what Universe does 3.69 outstrip 8.38?
 

bourbon n blues

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Nov 20, 2019
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Lets examine the math behind your statement.

Current Average accidental deaths: 492 per year
Number of guns owned in the US: 400 Million.
so 400,000,000/492=813,008.13

meaning there is 1 accidental death for every 813,008.13 guns in the US.

Your Claim is that an extra 3,000,000 guns will far outstrip any good.

so if we divide 3,000,000/ 813,008.13

We arrive at 3.69 accidental deaths from adding those guns

Since 2000 there have been 157 deaths in mass school shootings over 13 incidents.

so if we take 157/13 we arrive at

12.07 deaths per incident.

Meaning that if 1 school shooting is stopped you would save an average of

8.38 lives more than the lives lost to accidents with firearms

in what Universe does 3.69 outstrip 8.38?
It’s more complicated than what you laid out, but yeah. Basically your math is how it is.
The common factor is good use vs bad use. Results from good use outstrip misuse .
 
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ao5884

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It’s more complicated than what you laid out, but yeah. Basically your math is how it is.
The common factor is good use vs bad use. Results from good use outstrip misuse .
I used this method because it was the best case scenario in terms of supporting his argument. In reality most of the variables when it comes to accidental shootings would not be present in a school lowering the accidental death rate from firearms in schools. The claim was so absurd that a best case scenario results in 2x lives saved.
 
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ao5884

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bourbon n blues

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I used this method because it was the best case scenario in terms of supporting his argument. In reality most of the variables when it comes to accidental shootings would not be present in a school lowering the accidental death rate from firearms in schools. The claim was so absurd that a best case scenario results in 2x lives saved.
Exactly, I can tell you’re smart enough to know you’re showing a simple comparison . I mean consider your audience?😎
 

ao5884

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He has no idea what’s he’s talking about. YouTube search for Jerry Miculek. He’s the fastest ever shooter by most opinions, and while he’s lightning like, how long would a reload take for someone under no time pressure to reload?
Fun fact professional trick shots prefer revolvers over semis as the semis do not fire fast enough
 
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