Argentine tapes of Adolph Eichmann

[Obliviax]

pretty interesting stuff, though not surprising. he apparently admits to being the architect of the "final solution".

'If we had killed 10.3 million Jews, I would say with satisfaction, "Good, we destroyed an enemy"': Nazi Holocaust architect Adolf Eichmann is heard admitting to devising Final Solution in newly unearthed tapes​

• Eichmann is seen as the 'architect' of the Holocaust, and the driving force behind what Nazis termed 'the Final Solution to the Jewish question'
• He fled to Argentina after the war, was captured in May 1960 by Mossad agents, and put on trial in Israel: he was executed in 1962, aged 56
• While in Buenos Aires, in 1957, Eichmann recorded a series of interviews with Dutch Nazi sympathizer and journalist Willem Sassen
• The interviews have finally been made public, with an Israeli documentary team using 15 hours of the audio after archives in Germany finally granted access

 

[Delcolion915]

pretty interesting stuff, though not surprising. he apparently admits to being the architect of the "final solution".

'If we had killed 10.3 million Jews, I would say with satisfaction, "Good, we destroyed an enemy"': Nazi Holocaust architect Adolf Eichmann is heard admitting to devising Final Solution in newly unearthed tapes​

• Eichmann is seen as the 'architect' of the Holocaust, and the driving force behind what Nazis termed 'the Final Solution to the Jewish question'
• He fled to Argentina after the war, was captured in May 1960 by Mossad agents, and put on trial in Israel: he was executed in 1962, aged 56
• While in Buenos Aires, in 1957, Eichmann recorded a series of interviews with Dutch Nazi sympathizer and journalist Willem Sassen
• The interviews have finally been made public, with an Israeli documentary team using 15 hours of the audio after archives in Germany finally granted access

Being Jewish and coming from grand parents who were Holocaust survivors, I personally want to thank you so much for this link...though painful, we must unearth everything possible...

 

[Obliviax]

Being Jewish and coming from grand parents who were Holocaust survivors, I personally want to thank you so much for this link...though painful, we must unearth everything possible...

I am not Jewish but this episode is one of the darkest times in human history. It must not be forgotten

 

[87 Penn St8]

I am not Jewish but this episode is one of the darkest times in human history. It must not be forgotten

Genocide study is in the curriculum I teach 10th graders in World Studies. Every year they wonder how people can do such things...and many years there is unfortunately new genocides. Not bringing these things to light is a crime on top of a crime.

Thanks for the link...it will be added to our study.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I am not Jewish but this episode is one of the darkest times in human history. It must not be forgotten

Thankfully Eisenhower and his central command made sure the press and members of Congress were witness to the camps we liberated. Even with overwhelming evidence, there are lots of kooks that downplay or even deny there was a Holocaust. Imagine the conspiracy theorists today if light wasn’t shed on these atrocities.

 

[marshall23]

Genocide study is in the curriculum I teach 10th graders in World Studies. Every year they wonder how people can do such things...and many years there is unfortunately new genocides. Not bringing these things to light is a crime on top of a crime.

Thanks for the link...it will be added to our study.

Taught "Global 2" in NYS for many years. US History curriculum at the time didn't address how an estimated 10million Native Americans dwindled to 300K.

 

[87 Penn St8]

Taught "Global 2" in NYS for many years. US History curriculum at the time didn't address how an estimated 10million Native Americans dwindled to 300K.

That is covered in our American Studies course. I taught that only 1 year. Our "annexation"of Hawaii is another topic along with our colonual actions in the Philippines. Both topics tend to surprise kids...but most adults don't realize that Sanford Dole basically had us steal the Hawaiian islands to avoid paying import tariffs. Sadly I learned who Emmet Till was as a 50 year old while teaching that class the first time.His story was never taught to me.

So much history can be glossed over. because it is uncomfortable. Genocide unit is tough on the teacher too. I have a peer in another district who teaches a Holocaust history elective. He pairs it with a European Summer trip every other year so the class is popular. He has been to every camp. I explored bringing that into our school but it didn't work out at the time. My buddy said it takes a toll...but in the end the educational value is well worth it.

I've grown to embrace our genocide unit. I worked for an ad agency in NYC that had the motto "Truth Well Told." In today's world what exactly the truth is can be hard to discern. One of those White Supremicist guts busted in Idaho a few weeks ago is a Holocaust denier....been lots of coverage of how he turned and how his mom is reconciling the situation. How can any sane person believe it didntoccur? Such are our times....

 

[Obliviax]

That is covered in our American Studies course. I taught that only 1 year. Our "annexation"of Hawaii is another topic along with our colonual actions in the Philippines. Both topics tend to surprise kids...but most adults don't realize that Sanford Dole basically had us steal the Hawaiian islands to avoid paying import tariffs. Sadly I learned who Emmet Till was as a 50 year old while teaching that class the first time.His story was never taught to me.

So much history can be glossed over. because it is uncomfortable. Genocide unit is tough on the teacher too. I have a peer in another district who teaches a Holocaust history elective. He pairs it with a European Summer trip every other year so the class is popular. He has been to every camp. I explored bringing that into our school but it didn't work out at the time. My buddy said it takes a toll...but in the end the educational value is well worth it.

I've grown to embrace our genocide unit. I worked for an ad agency in NYC that had the motto "Truth Well Told." In today's world what exactly the truth is can be hard to discern. One of those White Supremicist guts busted in Idaho a few weeks ago is a Holocaust denier....been lots of coverage of how he turned and how his mom is reconciling the situation. How can any sane person believe it didntoccur? Such are our times....

All good stuff. But I hope you are also teaching context. In the late 1800 and mid 1900s the world was driven by uber-wealthy businesspeople. That wasn't unique to the USA. It was the way things were done and the way of progress. And it certainly pales in comparison to systemic genocide 50 years later. It was and is not a lot different than serfs living near a king's castle who were allowed to live/eat for indentured servitude to that king. Those very serfs huddled in the King's castle when hoards from other lands attacked. Live or die, that was the decision.

It is a great study to evaluate civilization from a macro level to watch "progress" (and regress) over thousands of years. It is really the study of mankind emerging from simple animals to more complex worldwide communities. We evolved from being simple kill or be-killed animals as technology advanced in terms of transportation and communication. Transportation and communication started trading, bartering and later currency. But there is no question the driving forces were commerce. And commerce evolved from conquering, killing, slavery, imperialism, industrial war and more. today, we struggle with the most recent quantum leap in the internet, mobile phones and complete access to communications infrastructure. Today, in just 20 years, you can live anywhere you want. I am interacting with Chief Digital Officers from US companies who live in Brazil, India and Japan. I honestly have no idea where they are except I can see, sometimes, that it is dark outside (if there is a window in their zoom background).

My point is that we shouldn't apologize for things like imperialism and commerce. its just the way it was. And, for the most part, created a better living situation (directionally). Even native Americans live better today than they did 150 years ago. Any honest debate shows that to be true. Living in a dirt floor, leather dwelling, drinking water from a stream, living off of animals and seasonal plants, and getting around on foot/horseback wasn't a great life no matter how we want to glamorize it today. Lifespan for a Native American in the 1800s was ~ 35 years old. Sounds fun to hunt buffalos for a living until you are 30 or so.

Anyway, a lot of layers and nuance. I just hope teachers teach context. We progress...no need to apologize except when someone systemically murders 6m plus people just because of their religion (and that isn't just jews but the Chinese, and eastern europeans have a lot to say as well regarding WW2).

 

[RickinDayton]

This is a good thread. Important topic with civil discourse. Thanks folks...

 

[john4psu]

 

[Lion84]

It is scary how a lot of these very important topics are not getting enough attention in the schools these days. I appreciate the teachers who are making sure they are getting taught because as said "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" I do fear that the primary mission of many schools are being subverted by politics and other non-educational agendas. If they ever approve school vouchers I think you will see a mass exodus from the public school system.

 

[87 Penn St8]

All good stuff. But I hope you are also teaching context. In the late 1800 and mid 1900s the world was driven by uber-wealthy businesspeople. That wasn't unique to the USA. It was the way things were done and the way of progress. And it certainly pales in comparison to systemic genocide 50 years later. It was and is not a lot different than serfs living near a king's castle who were allowed to live/eat for indentured servitude to that king. Those very serfs huddled in the King's castle when hoards from other lands attacked. Live or die, that was the decision.

It is a great study to evaluate civilization from a macro level to watch "progress" (and regress) over thousands of years. It is really the study of mankind emerging from simple animals to more complex worldwide communities. We evolved from being simple kill or be-killed animals as technology advanced in terms of transportation and communication. Transportation and communication started trading, bartering and later currency. But there is no question the driving forces were commerce. And commerce evolved from conquering, killing, slavery, imperialism, industrial war and more. today, we struggle with the most recent quantum leap in the internet, mobile phones and complete access to communications infrastructure. Today, in just 20 years, you can live anywhere you want. I am interacting with Chief Digital Officers from US companies who live in Brazil, India and Japan. I honestly have no idea where they are except I can see, sometimes, that it is dark outside (if there is a window in their zoom background).

My point is that we shouldn't apologize for things like imperialism and commerce. its just the way it was. And, for the most part, created a better living situation (directionally). Even native Americans live better today than they did 150 years ago. Any honest debate shows that to be true. Living in a dirt floor, leather dwelling, drinking water from a stream, living off of animals and seasonal plants, and getting around on foot/horseback wasn't a great life no matter how we want to glamorize it today. Lifespan for a Native American in the 1800s was ~ 35 years old. Sounds fun to hunt buffalos for a living until you are 30 or so.

Anyway, a lot of layers and nuance. I just hope teachers teach context. We progress...no need to apologize except when someone systemically murders 6m plus people just because of their religion (and that isn't just jews but the Chinese, and eastern europeans have a lot to say as well regarding WW2).

Yes...context is key...including the business part. We missed out on the carving up of China post Opium War and the Philippines became our Far East base. The Spanish American War had a lot of business involvement....as did "Operation Panamanian Freedom" where we helped secure freedom for Panamanians in exchange for the right to build the canal ( defense and business interests.) We waited for Teddy R to die before paying $25mm in "apology" money."

As for Native Americans....I'm not sure how many you personally know...but my son's college recruited NA's and he has 15 fraternity brothers in the NA/Hawaiian/ Pacific Islander grouping.

These guys went to an Ivy League school. One is in law school now and will eventually be chief of the Seminole tribe when he turns 35. Their lives are good based on casino money and cattle. However, the overwhelming number of their friends are stuck in very challenging circumstances- addiction, crime, etc.

If you have a genuine conversation not many will say that their lives are" better" since our (European) arrival. My cousin worked for NPS at the Grand Canyon and part of his job was to manage the relationship with a tribe that lives along the river. He said it was like going back in time...and that is exactly how they want it. Freedom to live on their land as they choose.

Both sides of any issue need to be presented and teachers personal opinions don't matter at all. In the last election cycle I was pleased that one of my students told their parents that they had no idea who I voted for. That is the way it should be. In order to be balanced I watch the full span of politicized news sources along with the mainstream media. When perusing the differences in how issues are covered and what is presented as "facts" one can see how uneducated people who only get their "news" from a single source are easily swayed. And I say this about the full political spectrum....and yes...we teach that too. Ultimately kids make up their own minds...and that is the way it should be.

Genocide is awful and kids think of them as past tense..."that could never happen again"....yet it continues. America like any other country protects its' interests. It is why we didn't get more involved in Rwanda and both Bill Clinton and Madeline Albright "wished they had understood and done more." Selective perception of right, wrong and how to utilize economic resources is a complicated thing....and in my opinion, we are no better or worse than other 1st World European based places. We like to think we are...but are we really?

All good food for thought for all of us...especially in the current environment in our country

 

[Hugh Laurie]

For anyone visiting the Washington DC area I highly recommend a visit to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum located adjacent to the National Mall. I found it to be a highly educational and also a very sobering experience.

 

[87 Penn St8]

For anyone visiting the Washington DC area I highly recommend a visit to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum located adjacent to the National Mall. I found it to be a highly educational and also a very sobering experience.

Been multiple times and learn something different each visit. The first time was shocking. The times since are educational. There is so much we think we understand but we really do not. Locally West Chester U has done an annual symposium featuring Holocaust survivors. Not many left...the human touch is so much ore impact full that video recordings

 

[WV Bruno]

The Nazis killed several of my ancestors Battle of Moscow 1941 and Warsaw 1944.

 

[McCloudersportLion]

That was a crime what IBM and Klauss Schwabb's daddy made all the cash helping the Nazis do...

 

[LafayetteBear]

Yeah, that's it, Trump Cultist. GUN CONTROL is what led to the rise of the Nazis in Germany.

 

[bvillebaron]

Thankfully Eisenhower and his central command made sure the press and members of Congress were witness to the camps we liberated. Even with overwhelming evidence, there are lots of kooks that downplay or even deny there was a Holocaust. Imagine the conspiracy theorists today if light wasn’t shed on these atrocities.

Eisenhower also had the foresight to have military photographers take photographs because he was prescient enough to know and say that if these atrocities weren't documented, some day people would claim it never happened.

 

[Cletus11]

Yeah, that's it, Trump Cultist. GUN CONTROL is what led to the rise of the Nazis in Germany.

I will say, the extreme far right 'white supremacist' groups are considered to anti-Semites, although in general you never hear much from them as mostly anti-black is their main focus. But I would say it is pretty open out there that the progressive left is much more dangerous to the Jewish people than the extreme far right. I mean AOC, Talib, etc...are openly anti-Semite in public speeches yet nobody calls them out on it. To me, that is much more dangerous to the Jews then the white supremacy movement as that has always been out there, is very small, and rarely an incident involving them and jewish people. But the far left progressives openly are aligning with the Iranian and Hezballoh and talk about how bad Isreal is. And that is out in the open which is much more dangerous.

 

[Obliviax]

I will say, the extreme far right 'white supremacist' groups are considered to anti-Semites, although in general you never hear much from them as mostly anti-black is their main focus. But I would say it is pretty open out there that the progressive left is much more dangerous to the Jewish people than the extreme far right. I mean AOC, Talib, etc...are openly anti-Semite in public speeches yet nobody calls them out on it. To me, that is much more dangerous to the Jews then the white supremacy movement as that has always been out there, is very small, and rarely an incident involving them and jewish people. But the far left progressives openly are aligning with the Iranian and Hezballoh and talk about how bad Isreal is. And that is out in the open which is much more dangerous.

Agreed but the Jewish vote is highly swayed toward Democrats due to the GOP's close affiliation with born again Christianity.

 

[Cletus11]

Agreed but the Jewish vote is highly swayed toward Democrats due to the GOP's close affiliation with born again Christianity.

Yes, which I think is a major issue. Generally Jewish people vote democrat yet the far left of the democrat party is anti-semite. Another crazy thing is that jewish people obviously are good with money and that is typically a republican thing. So republicans are more aligned with jews on israel and money yet jews vote democrat most times which is interesting.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Yes, which I think is a major issue. Generally Jewish people vote democrat yet the far left of the democrat party is anti-semite. Another crazy thing is that jewish people obviously are good with money and that is typically a republican thing. So republicans are more aligned with jews on israel and money yet jews vote democrat most times which is interesting.

Probably more rural vs city than some think than anything else . They’re neighbors and social friends with many on the left.

 

[Cletus11]

Probably more rural vs city than some think than anything else . They’re neighbors and social friends with many on the left.

I think that and generally the democrats through the years were the part that stuck up for the minority and jews are minority and you have history of parents and grandparents, etc....

 

[bourbon n blues]

I think that and generally the democrats through the years were the part that stuck up for the minority and jews are minority and you have history of parents and grandparents, etc....

That’s a possibility, but I still think more rural vs city. It’s literally people you know.

 

[bvillebaron]

Yeah, that's it, Trump Cultist. GUN CONTROL is what led to the rise of the Nazis in Germany.

Sure as hell made it easier to pursue their agenda Dim lemming.

 

[tlbakernc]

Funny how no one ever talks about the 10 million Jews Stalin killed.

 

[WV Bruno]

Funny how no one ever talks about the 10 million Jews Stalin killed.

That is BS. Do some research. He was a Jew.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Agreed but the Jewish vote is highly swayed toward Democrats due to the GOP's close affiliation with born again Christianity.

Actually born again Christians are strongly in favor of Israel and it’s defense. Heard a Jewish leader once explain why Jews are so strongly Democrats. He said the Jewish people were always strongly discriminated against and thus identify with the Dems as their image is that of supporting various minorities. It’s the idea that minorities must all work together and help each other.
Hope that they are seeing how wrong this is. That that party supports the enemies of Israel and their rhetoric encourages attacks on Jews.

 

[Katatonic]

My point is that we shouldn't apologize for things like imperialism and commerce. its just the way it was. And, for the most part, created a better living situation (directionally). Even native Americans live better today than they did 150 years ago. Any honest debate shows that to be true. Living in a dirt floor, leather dwelling, drinking water from a stream, living off of animals and seasonal plants, and getting around on foot/horseback wasn't a great life no matter how we want to glamorize it today. Lifespan for a Native American in the 1800s was ~ 35 years old. Sounds fun to hunt buffalos for a living until you are 30 or so.

Anyway, a lot of layers and nuance. I just hope teachers teach context. We progress...no need to apologize except when someone systemically murders 6m plus people just because of their religion (and that isn't just jews but the Chinese, and eastern europeans have a lot to say as well regarding WW2).

You sound like the ultranationalist, right-wing Japanese (and pretty much all the other imperial powers) who think that they were saving Asia from European imperialism/colonialism and bringing better living conditions/progress to the region.

They also think that they are the victims of US aggression and the whitewash Japanese war crimes ("fake news" created by their enemies who want to see Japan remain subservient).

So, even if you don't care about the war crimes (along with with the crimes committed as a colonial power) the Japanese committed against other Asians, what about those committed against American GIs?

Shinzo Abe revered his grandfather, Kishi, who served as the Japanese PM after WWII, and thought it was a disgrace that he had been labeled a Class A war criminal.

Kishi escaped prosecution/conviction b/c a group of influential Americans thought he would be a good bulwark against communism, nevermind that he was responsible for the deaths of 100k+ Chinese laborers (basically slaves) in Manchukuo (that was all in the name of economic progress - right?).

 

[Obliviax]

You sound like the ultranationalist, right-wing Japanese (and pretty much all the other imperial powers) who think that they were saving Asia from European imperialism/colonialism and bringing better living conditions/progress to the region.

They also think that they are the victims of US aggression and the whitewash Japanese war crimes ("fake news" created by their enemies who want to see Japan remain subservient).

So, even if you don't care about the war crimes (along with with the crimes committed as a colonial power) the Japanese committed against other Asians, what about those committed against American GIs?

Shinzo Abe revered his grandfather, Kishi, who served as the Japanese PM after WWII, and thought it was a disgrace that he had been labeled a Class A war criminal.

Kishi escaped prosecution/conviction b/c a group of influential Americans thought he would be a good bulwark against communism, nevermind that he was responsible for the deaths of 100k+ Chinese laborers (basically slaves) in Manchukuo (that was all in the name of economic progress - right?).

You read a LOT into my post. My point was that every powerful nation was colonizing. Like it or not that was the nature on mankind at the time. Just like slavery was before the 1800s; worldwide. In those days it was a kill or be killed mentality. Somebody was trying to take you down. Your defense was to take them down first. In todays environment that seems harsh.

it is like living on a farm killing animals daily. That is the environment and what you do. If you grow up in a city killing animals for a living sense harsh. But that is the reality of one’s environment

 

[Obliviax]

Actually born again Christians are strongly in favor of Israel and it’s defense. Heard a Jewish leader once explain why Jews are so strongly Democrats. He said the Jewish people were always strongly discriminated against and thus identify with the Dems as their image is that of supporting various minorities. It’s the idea that minorities must all work together and help each other.
Hope that they are seeing how wrong this is. That that party supports the enemies of Israel and their rhetoric encourages attacks on Jews.

I agree. But I am not talking about Israel but Judaism. Jews, from experience, fear other religions (Christian, Muslim). Fear the combination of government and religion against them. The USA has been a predominantly Christian nation. they fear Christianity combined with political power.

things change of course. The USA is rapidly moving toward having no religion.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I agree. But I am not talking about Israel but Judaism. Jews, from experience, fear other religions (Christian, Muslim). Fear the combination of government and religion against them. The USA has been a predominantly Christian nation. they fear Christianity combined with political power.

things change of course. The USA is rapidly moving toward having no religion.

Well, if they fear political power than they should hate the dem party because that party worships power. For them religion and power are one and the same.

 

[Obliviax]

Well, if they fear political power than they should hate the dem party because that party worships power. For them religion and power are one and the same.

I wasn't speaking in terms of what should be, I was speaking in terms of why they have traditionally done what they've done.

 

[JayWye]

pretty interesting stuff, though not surprising. he apparently admits to being the architect of the "final solution".

'If we had killed 10.3 million Jews, I would say with satisfaction, "Good, we destroyed an enemy"': Nazi Holocaust architect Adolf Eichmann is heard admitting to devising Final Solution in newly unearthed tapes​

• Eichmann is seen as the 'architect' of the Holocaust, and the driving force behind what Nazis termed 'the Final Solution to the Jewish question'
• He fled to Argentina after the war, was captured in May 1960 by Mossad agents, and put on trial in Israel: he was executed in 1962, aged 56
• While in Buenos Aires, in 1957, Eichmann recorded a series of interviews with Dutch Nazi sympathizer and journalist Willem Sassen
• The interviews have finally been made public, with an Israeli documentary team using 15 hours of the audio after archives in Germany finally granted access

Toured Dachau many years ago. They left some ovens intact with doors open and human remains inside. Pretty sobering.