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Are our guys small compared to competition?

Agoodnap

Agoodnap

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2015
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I think they are by design. It's no fun having to starve for 3 days through 4 weigh-ins...it also causes all kinds of gas tank issues. Could this be one of Caels secret strategies that competition can't seem to figure out? With the exception of heavy I don't recall a match where our guy looked larger or he gassed quicker.
 
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Suriano is as strong a 125 lber as they come..4% body fat I remember reading in an article, physical speciman..super gas tank..other than him you are probably right..the rest look "comfortable"
 
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And the inverse is true.

Oklahoma State always has a handful of kids who falter.

Collica & Crutchmer were monsters at their weight, but the multi-day weigh in did them no favors.
 
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Perhaps that is all part Cael's plan to keep it fun. It's no fun wrestling the scales every week for 4 months.

We've seen a few instances where our guys made a big cut ... A Alton, Rasheed, Beitz (141) ... for the most part it hasn't worked out very well.
 
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I think this is the #1 place Cael is ahead of the curve. It goes to overall well being and keeping wrestlers happy and advancing in skill. Guys who are not starving have a better chance of getting better in season. PSU guys get better in season (thus the peak) at the end of the year when it matters the most. I have no doubt that Zain could have remained a 141 lb.,Joseph could be a 157,Hall could be 165, Bo could be 174. None would have peaked like they just did. I hope more high school coaches take heed.
 
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I can appreciate the thought processes out there but it's probably not fair to say Cael is ahead of the curve or ground breaking. Only as late as last year we had a guy struggling with a cut. Two if you count Joseph trying to make 157. We certainly have guys cutting now...it's just a matter of how much.

I can agree that Okie State seems to push too hard in the wrong direction but give some credit to Ryan with Snyder up and moving Nick Helfin up from 174 to 197 and get the benefit. Or Koll who had no problem wrestling Dake higher and eating what he wanted or Realbuto who moved up to stay away from the more serious cut.

This has a lot to do with what you have on The roster and where the pieces can fit best. There are so many things to speak about Cael, his approach and the acheivements, but maybe temper the enthusiasm on some points.
 
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Cowbell Man said:
I can appreciate the thought processes out there but it's probably not fair to say Cael is ahead of the curve or ground breaking. Only as late as last year we had a guy struggling with a cut. Two if you count Joseph trying to make 157. We certainly have guys cutting now...it's just a matter of how much.

I can agree that Okie State seems to push too hard in the wrong direction but give some credit to Ryan with Snyder up and moving Nick Helfin up from 174 to 197 and get the benefit. Or Koll who had no problem wrestling Dake higher and eating what he wanted or Realbuto who moved up to stay away from the more serious cut.

This has a lot to do with what you have on The roster and where the pieces can fit best. There are so many things to speak about Cael, his approach and the acheivements, but maybe temper the enthusiasm on some points.
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Sure you can find outlying examples to the contrary, but PSU has had more guys move up in weight class and succeed than any other program. tOSU would be the other school that does this quite well, and the 2 teams are at the top. Cael himself moved up and was having his wrestlers at ISU do it as needed. This isn't as new of a fad to Cael as the rest of the NCAA.
 
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No doubt we can find examples on every team. If cutting weight is the only way a kid can get in the line-up he's probably going to cut.

I do believe though there a basic philosophy difference, and it begins with recruiting. Cael and Smith could be going after the same kid, Cael might see him growing into 157, Smith might have him penciled in as career 141 pounder. That might extreme, but I'm pretty confident Cael never pictured Chance at 157.
 
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I think it also has a lot to do with where a wrestler sees himself wrestling in the international scene. Bo moved up as part of a plan to get to a particular size for freestyle. Hall isn't going to "bulk up" and become a big 174 lber even if he could as he wants to be able to make 74 Kilos (163 lbs) when necessary. Also agree that its where you fit into the lineup so some will sometimes need to cut or need to bump just to fit in. Ala Cutch at 197.
 
Cowbell Man said:
I can appreciate the thought processes out there but it's probably not fair to say Cael is ahead of the curve or ground breaking. Only as late as last year we had a guy struggling with a cut. Two if you count Joseph trying to make 157. We certainly have guys cutting now...it's just a matter of how much.

I can agree that Okie State seems to push too hard in the wrong direction but give some credit to Ryan with Snyder up and moving Nick Helfin up from 174 to 197 and get the benefit. Or Koll who had no problem wrestling Dake higher and eating what he wanted or Realbuto who moved up to stay away from the more serious cut.

This has a lot to do with what you have on The roster and where the pieces can fit best. There are so many things to speak about Cael, his approach and the acheivements, but maybe temper the enthusiasm on some points.
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I certainly don't count Cenzo considering he went from a HS JR 138 to a smallish SR 152 to shirting 157/165 to 165 national champ in 4 years.

Part of the shirt year is finding where the line is drawn between weight mgmt vs. natural growth.
 
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True, TanTom let Snyder & Heflin bump up in weights, but he also had Micah Jordan squeeze down to 141 last year and BoJo squeeze down to 165 last year.

Ohio St seems to handle weight management as "case by case" in order to manage all 10 in their line up. Which I bet many schools do.
 
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diggerpup said:
True, TanTom let Snyder & Heflin bump up in weights, but he also had Micah Jordan squeeze down to 141 last year and BoJo squeeze down to 165 last year.

Ohio St seems to handle weight management as "case by case" in order to manage all 10 in their line up. Which I bet many schools do.
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IIRC Mark Martin's father was pissed at Tan Tom for (allegedly) promising 184 during recruitment and then squeezing him down to 174 until SR year, when he jumped to 197.

Rodriguez dropped back to 125 this year and hit the wall in Feb. Rumors swirling that Tomasello will drop back next year, though we'll see on that.

He did let both Stiebers, Tomasello, Snyder, BoJo, MyMar among others go up, even though it created some lineup challenges (165 this year, 197 last year).

Heflin was interesting in that IIRC his 2-weight jump allowed Courts to stay at 184. Don't think Ryan foresaw either Courts struggling or Heflin being a finalist. Funny how things turn out.
 
diggerpup said:
And the inverse is true.

Oklahoma State always has a handful of kids who falter.

Collica & Crutchmer were monsters at their weight, but the multi-day weigh in did them no favors.
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Look what weight-cutting did to Chance Marstellar. One of the best HS wrestlers of all time goes to OSU, can't finish a match because he's cut too much weight, and his career is shot.
 
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BOSCO2 said:
Look what weight-cutting did to Chance Marstellar. One of the best HS wrestlers of all time goes to OSU, can't finish a match because he's cut too much weight, and his career is shot.
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The weight cut was too much for Marstellar, however he did have other issues too that contributed to his career never taking off.
 
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El-Jefe said:
I certainly don't count Cenzo considering he went from a HS JR 138 to a smallish SR 152 to shirting 157/165 to 165 national champ in 4 years.

Part of the shirt year is finding where the line is drawn between weight mgmt vs. natural growth.
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I'm with you...and wasn't really counting him. I was more or less trying to quell the Cael is an Innovator in weight management, too. lol...it was suddenly as if all our wrestlers were glowing examples of wrestling up a bit and not cutting weight. And hopefully there are now enough examples to show that size isn't everything on the mat.
 
21Guns said:
I have no idea how Bo Jordan weighs in at 174, like, ever.
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BoJo looks more like 197. He & Micah look like they have starvation and water weigjht games going on. Dumb-asses.
 
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Locolion said:
Yeah man! Every day contains an early happy hour for me. I am a particularly happy and fortunate fellow. WE ARE...!!!
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Fortunate that for some women it doesn't matter. If you gotta talk about it, you don't got it. Have another drink and a smoke while your at it.
 
Locolion said:
9 times outta 10 Goliath would have taken David. Completely lucky toss
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David took a gun to a knife fight. I don't get why we're supposed to be impressed that he won.

Also, if he were any good, he would have taken a rubber chicken to a knife fight and coached up the rubber chicken. That's what real heroes like Gable used to do.
 
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