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psulongago

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Aug 29, 2001
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Mentioned Penn State dominated first half against Iowa before QB's injury. This appears to be the national opinion as the poll drop was not too great with a chance, based on future schedule to climb back up. I will say Iowa was exposed as a very average team, pedestrian offense, decent defense, not nearly as advertised. With Clifford, final would have been about 31 -10. PSU would have moved the ball denying continued field position to Iowa.
 

step.eng69

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Nov 7, 2012
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North East PA, Backmountain area, age 72
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have Christmas every day
"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas” was a proverb of Don Meredith (1938-2010), an SMU and Dallas Cowboys quarterback and Monday Night Football announcer. The proverb (in other forms) is older, but Meredith helped popularize it with his version.

“If ifs and ands were pots and pans, there’d be no work for tinkers’ hands” is a saying from the early 19th century.

[This entry was prepared with research assistance by the Quote Investigator.]


17 December 1970, Ada (OK) Evening News, pg. 7, col. 1:
Howard: “If Los Angeles wins, it’s a big one, but San Francisco is still very much in it.”
Dan: “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas.”
Howard: “I didn’t think you’d remember that old canard.”
Dan: “Is that what it was?”
 

NittPicker

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Jun 30, 2001
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That won't sit well with our Iowa trolls. They've been telling us Clifford was on pace to throw 7-8 interceptions and they would have won anyway. OTOH, using that logic, we were on pace to win by a score of 48-10. It's nice to hear a neutral view of the game as opposed to what the Cawk fans have been trying to sell.
 

the Howler

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Oct 17, 2001
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It looks like excuses, hypotheticals, what-ifs, and imaginary scenarios play a prominent role in the PSU fan psyche.

Wouldn't Penn State have won if they had simply stopped Iowa's two unathletic receivers from catching those TD passes?

Does that kind of thing ever factor into the analysis, or is it just Clifford?

If Iowa's O is hot garbage, what does that say about your D that allowed 23?

In 2004, Iowa was down to its sixth string RB and still won a Big Ten title.

Injuries are a part of football. Good teams overcome them and don't make excuses.
 

slykens

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Nov 21, 2016
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It looks like excuses, hypotheticals, what-ifs, and imaginary scenarios play a prominent role in the PSU fan psyche.

Wouldn't Penn State have won if they had simply stopped Iowa's two unathletic receivers from catching those TD passes?

Does that kind of thing ever factor into the analysis, or is it just Clifford?

If Iowa's O is hot garbage, what does that say about your D that allowed 23?

In 2004, Iowa was down to its sixth string RB and still won a Big Ten title.

Injuries are a part of football. Good teams overcome them and don't make excuses.
How about our teams settle this on December 4?
 
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WPTLION

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Jan 7, 2002
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It looks like excuses, hypotheticals, what-ifs, and imaginary scenarios play a prominent role in the PSU fan psyche.

Wouldn't Penn State have won if they had simply stopped Iowa's two unathletic receivers from catching those TD passes?

Does that kind of thing ever factor into the analysis, or is it just Clifford?

If Iowa's O is hot garbage, what does that say about your D that allowed 23?

In 2004, Iowa was down to its sixth string RB and still won a Big Ten title.

Injuries are a part of football. Good teams overcome them and don't make excuses.
Iowa will get destroyed by who ever the play in the BT championship and bowl game. If you know anything about FB, if you have a QB that can't get out of his own way you have no chance to win against most teams. Yes PSU should have a better backup, but that still doesn't make Iowa a great team, might not make them even above average.
 
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fastlax16

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Jan 1, 2014
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In 2004, Iowa was down to its sixth string RB and still won a Big Ten title.
Co-champion shared with the Michigan team that wiped the floor with them.

Good luck the rest of the season, you'll need it. Check back in at seasons end if you have your first unshared title since the 85.
 
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Madsol

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Dec 6, 2002
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Injuries are a part of football. Good teams overcome them and don't make exexcuses.

That's a fair and valid point. Many of us Penn State fans have lamented at how unprepared our backup QB appeared to be. And I'm thinking that if we have to rely on him moving forward that he will be better than what he showed on Saturday. In this day and age of college football, especially for a team that relies on its passing game, an injury at the QB position can be very difficult to overcome. Look at LSU. Less than 2 years removed from a perfect 15-0 season. Now they're a hot mess. Not because of an injury of course but because Joe Burrow (and some pretty good wideouts) made that much of a difference.
 

the Howler

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Oct 17, 2001
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That's a fair and valid point. Many of us Penn State fans have lamented at how unprepared our backup QB appeared to be. And I'm thinking that if we have to rely on him moving forward that he will be better than what he showed on Saturday. In this day and age of college football, especially for a team that relies on its passing game, an injury at the QB position can be very difficult to overcome. Look at LSU. Less than 2 years removed from a perfect 15-0 season. Now they're a hot mess. Not because of an injury of course but because Joe Burrow (and some pretty good wideouts) made that much of a difference.
Or because their coach is a mouth-breathing dolt.
 

the Howler

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Oct 17, 2001
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Iowa will get destroyed by who ever the play in the BT championship and bowl game. If you know anything about FB, if you have a QB that can't get out of his own way you have no chance to win against most teams. Yes PSU should have a better backup, but that still doesn't make Iowa a great team, might not make them even above average.
Ironclad logic. End thread.

A team with 12 wins a row, including PSU's last two losses, is average...maybe.
 

Player2BNamedL8r

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Jan 3, 2012
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Mentioned Penn State dominated first half against Iowa before QB's injury. This appears to be the national opinion as the poll drop was not too great with a chance, based on future schedule to climb back up. I will say Iowa was exposed as a very average team, pedestrian offense, decent defense, not nearly as advertised. With Clifford, final would have been about 31 -10. PSU would have moved the ball denying continued field position to Iowa.
Could you post the link?
 
Sep 15, 2003
20
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Co-champion shared with the Michigan team that wiped the floor with them.

Good luck the rest of the season, you'll need it. Check back in at seasons end if you have your first unshared title since the 85.
The week before that we lost to ASU 44-7. So in comparison, the Michigan game was a nail biter!

But after that - Iowa did win its next 8 games including wins over OSU, PSU, MSU, Wisconsin and the defending national champion LSU (with Saban as coach). So it ended up being a solid year with a final ranking of #8 - highest ranked Big 10 team. Michigan ended up #14.
 

bdgan

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May 29, 2008
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Wouldn't Penn State have won if they had simply stopped Iowa's two unathletic receivers from catching those TD passes?

Does that kind of thing ever factor into the analysis, or is it just Clifford?
Losing Clifford and Mustipher was the biggest reason.

We couldn't move the ball on offense without Clifford. Only 3 points after he left the game and Iowa was always working with a short field.

The defense tired from all the three and outs. Mustipher would have been a better run stuffer and he would have put pressure on the Iowa QB.
 
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fastlax16

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Jan 1, 2014
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Ironclad logic. End thread.

A team with 12 wins a row, including PSU's last two losses, is average...maybe.

I mean the 12 wins seem pretty average when you unwrap it. None of last seasons wins were against teams that finished ranked. Only win this season against a currently ranked opponent played 3/4 of the game with a bad backup qb and eeked it out by 3. Last weekend's win over us appears to be the "signature" win during that stretch. Something to hang your hat on.

No big ten titles since 04 and one division title in the west also seems pretty average. Come back after they have a win in Indy.
 

PSUQBKeeper

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Dec 11, 2016
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It looks like excuses, hypotheticals, what-ifs, and imaginary scenarios play a prominent role in the PSU fan psyche.

Wouldn't Penn State have won if they had simply stopped Iowa's two unathletic receivers from catching those TD passes?

Does that kind of thing ever factor into the analysis, or is it just Clifford?

If Iowa's O is hot garbage, what does that say about your D that allowed 23?

In 2004, Iowa was down to its sixth string RB and still won a Big Ten title.

Injuries are a part of football. Good teams overcome them and don't make excuses.
you may know less about football than anyone I have ever heard of
 
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YYZ86

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Jun 17, 2013
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It looks like excuses, hypotheticals, what-ifs, and imaginary scenarios play a prominent role in the PSU fan psyche.

Wouldn't Penn State have won if they had simply stopped Iowa's two unathletic receivers from catching those TD passes?

Does that kind of thing ever factor into the analysis, or is it just Clifford?

If Iowa's O is hot garbage, what does that say about your D that allowed 23?

In 2004, Iowa was down to its sixth string RB and still won a Big Ten title.

Injuries are a part of football. Good teams overcome them andYes, PSU still should have won, and yes Iowa is overrated.
Ironclad logic. End thread.

A team with 12 wins a row, including PSU's last two losses, is average...maybe.
Better than average but not as good as you think unless I am misreading you. Please come back at the end of the year.
 
Sep 15, 2003
20
27
1
Mentioned Penn State dominated first half against Iowa before QB's injury. This appears to be the national opinion as the poll drop was not too great with a chance, based on future schedule to climb back up. I will say Iowa was exposed as a very average team, pedestrian offense, decent defense, not nearly as advertised. With Clifford, final would have been about 31 -10. PSU would have moved the ball denying continued field position to Iowa.
Just a FYI - Iowa hasn't given up 25 points in a game for 28 straight games. One of their strengths is adjusting during a game to whatever the offense is doing. A big first quarter against Iowa doesn't necessarily equate to a big game.

Iowa hasn't lost a game at home by more than 11 points since 2016. And they haven't lost any game - regardless of location - by more than 11 points since 2017. Not saying your prediction wouldn't have come true - but recent history definitely doesn't support your assertion...
 

fastlax16

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Jan 1, 2014
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Better than average but not as good as you think unless I am misreading you. Please come back at the end of the year.

They don't think they're as good as they're saying. If they did they wouldn't be here telling us and their players and staff wouldn't have felt the need to defend the win in post game interviews. They won't be back after the championship game (not a given they make it, need to figure out the daunting game against the boilermakers) because they aren't good enough to beat whoever comes out of the east. No west champ has been, because it's the division of average, made to look above average based on the level of competition.
 
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YYZ86

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Jun 17, 2013
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It looks like excuses, hypotheticals, what-ifs, and imaginary scenarios play a prominent role in the PSU fan psyche.

Wouldn't Penn State have won if they had simply stopped Iowa's two unathletic receivers from catching those TD passes?

Does that kind of thing ever factor into the analysis, or is it just Clifford?

If Iowa's O is hot garbage, what does that say about your D that allowed 23?

In 2004, Iowa was down to its sixth string RB and still won a Big Ten title.

Injuries are a part of football. Good teams overcome them and don't make excuses.
Iowa’s offense is not good and yes PSU should have have stopped them and still won. Strang things happen, so I agree. Losing a QB is just as much a fact as blocking a punt, a pick six, or any other part of the game so not an excuse. PSUs offense is worlds better with him on the field. It is the single most important piece in the offense. Denying that is intellectually dishonest. It isn’t just PSU fans saying it, everyone is saying it. Grow up.
 

NittPicker

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Jun 30, 2001
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They don't think they're as good as they're saying. If they did they wouldn't be here telling us and their players and staff wouldn't have felt the need to defend the win in post game interviews.
I think that's about it. After a Penn State victory I've never had the urge to visit the opponent's message board and ask them to tell me good our team was.
 
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blmr31

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Love the fact that Franklin is 4 and 2 against that mouth breathing dolt of a coach from Iowa!
 

cop113

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Oct 6, 2010
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They don't think they're as good as they're saying. If they did they wouldn't be here telling us and their players and staff wouldn't have felt the need to defend the win in post game interviews. They won't be back after the championship game (not a given they make it, need to figure out the daunting game against the boilermakers) because they aren't good enough to beat whoever comes out of the east. No west champ has been, because it's the division of average, made to look above average based on the level of competition.
Wouldnt PSU love to have the weak pathetic remainder of Iowa schedule!
 

JWB389

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With the IA offense I saw Saturday, this game would have been over by halftime. They could barely muster enough O to beat us as it was.
 
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fastlax16

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Wouldnt PSU love to have the weak pathetic remainder of Iowa schedule!

That's really the story of Iowa football success under Kirk. Avoid the other top teams in the conference for as long as possible.

When they won the west in 2015 their crossover games were Maryland and Indiana.
When they "won" the big ten in 2004 it was shared with a Michigan team that beat them 30-17.
When they "won" the big ten in 2002 they didn't play national champion OSU and got boat raced by USC in the Rose Bowl.

If they do win the west, not a given since they're 1-3 against wisconsin, 1-3 against purdue and 1-3 against northwestern in the last 4 seasons, they'll be underdogs against whoever makes it out of the east (including us).
 
Last edited:

the Howler

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Oct 17, 2001
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Iowa’s offense is not good and yes PSU should have have stopped them and still won. Strang things happen, so I agree. Losing a QB is just as much a fact as blocking a punt, a pick six, or any other part of the game so not an excuse. PSUs offense is worlds better with him on the field. It is the single most important piece in the offense. Denying that is intellectually dishonest. It isn’t just PSU fans saying it, everyone is saying it. Grow up.

Forget chalking it up to "strange" things. If Iowa's offense is so awful, how did they accumulate even 300 yards on PSU's D? BAD OFFENSES DO NOT MOVE THE BALL ON GREAT DEFENSES.

I acknowledge that PSU has a great defense. I also acknowledge that Iowa's offense is presently lacking but will only get better, much like last year.

The reality is that defense will win games when your team is holding onto a lead. And after all, it was 17-10 when your backup came in. Or, if you're a PSU fan, it was 17-3 when Clifford went out.

A freshman WR Keagan Johnson outran and outjuked 4 of your primtime athletes for 44 yards. Ragaini was wide open on his TD. Goodson busted through your line many, many times.

You're all in luck. I'm way too caffeinated now and need to burn this off at the gym.

Ciao.
 
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AvgUser

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Jul 12, 2016
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Just a FYI - Iowa hasn't given up 25 points in a game for 28 straight games. One of their strengths is adjusting during a game to whatever the offense is doing. A big first quarter against Iowa doesn't necessarily equate to a big game.

Iowa hasn't lost a game at home by more than 11 points since 2016. And they haven't lost any game - regardless of location - by more than 11 points since 2017. Not saying your prediction wouldn't have come true - but recent history definitely doesn't support your assertion...
Super. Congratulations. I guess that entitles Iowa to play in the PouIlan Weedeater We-havent-given-up-more-than-25-points-in-forver Bowl Game. I forget. Is that a New Year's day game or is that one of the semifinals to the championship?
 

fastlax16

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Jan 1, 2014
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Super. Congratulations. I guess that entitles Iowa to play in the PouIlan Weedeater We-havent-given-up-more-than-25-points-in-forver Bowl Game. I forget. Is that a New Year's day game or is that one of the semifinals to the championship?

???

With stats like those they've clearly won many titles. Divisional. Big. National. State Fair.
 

AWS1022

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Nov 12, 2011
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It looks like excuses, hypotheticals, what-ifs, and imaginary scenarios play a prominent role in the PSU fan psyche.

Wouldn't Penn State have won if they had simply stopped Iowa's two unathletic receivers from catching those TD passes?

Does that kind of thing ever factor into the analysis, or is it just Clifford?

If Iowa's O is hot garbage, what does that say about your D that allowed 23?

In 2004, Iowa was down to its sixth string RB and still won a Big Ten title.

Injuries are a part of football. Good teams overcome them and don't make excuses.
Please say you’re really not this dumb. 23 points when playing on a 50 yard field is nothing to brag about. Your offense is not good, accept it and hope your defense gets even better because it’s the only shot you have.
 

wolve1972

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Sep 3, 2018
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I had two big takeaways from that game. With Clifford on the field there was NO DOUBT that PSU was the better team - at least to anyone with an open mind. That kid is a rock solid college QB. Not the flashiest or the strongest arm, but with enough skills, brains, and moxy to lead PSU to championships and that includes competing with OSU for the East championship.

But, my other takeaway was how unprepared the backup was for this moment. I was actually watching the game with a PSU friend (and a few others) and we just kept looking at each other in shock. I can't repeat a few of his comments without risking getting banned. If you look at all of the CF championship-type programs, they all have solid backups. That's why I really believe that it's critical for Clifford to return next year. I keep reading about throwing Allar into the fire and that could be disastrous for a true freshman. Let the kid grow by watching and taking things in - he has a chance to be a bigtime CF QB
 

AWS1022

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Nov 12, 2011
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I had two big takeaways from that game. With Clifford on the field there was NO DOUBT that PSU was the better team - at least to anyone with an open mind. That kid is a rock solid college QB. Not the flashiest or the strongest arm, but with enough skills, brains, and moxy to lead PSU to championships and that includes competing with OSU for the East championship.

But, my other takeaway was how unprepared the backup was for this moment. I was actually watching the game with a PSU friend (and a few others) and we just kept looking at each other in shock. I can't repeat a few of his comments without risking getting banned. If you look at all of the CF championship-type programs, they all have solid backups. That's why I really believe that it's critical for Clifford to return next year. I keep reading about throwing Allar into the fire and that could be disastrous for a true freshman. Let the kid grow by watching and taking things in - he has a chance to be a bigtime CF QB
Or they start Roberson and let Allar share time in the first few games then hand off the starting job to him like Clemson did with Lawrence.
 
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YYZ86

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Jun 17, 2013
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Forget chalking it up to "strange" things. If Iowa's offense is so awful, how did they accumulate even 300 yards on PSU's D? BAD OFFENSES DO NOT MOVE THE BALL ON GREAT DEFENSES.

I acknowledge that PSU has a great defense. I also acknowledge that Iowa's offense is presently lacking but will only get better, much like last year.

The reality is that defense will win games when your team is holding onto a lead. And after all, it was 17-10 when your backup came in. Or, if you're a PSU fan, it was 17-3 when Clifford went out.

A freshman WR Keagan Johnson outran and outjuked 4 of your primtime athletes for 44 yards. Ragaini was wide open on his TD. Goodson busted through your line many, many times.

You're all in luck. I'm way too caffeinated now and need to burn this off at the gym.

Ciao.
Yes I agreed. PSU should have been fine. Doesn’t change anything I said at all. I don’t think PSU has a great defense. Giving up 23 to Iowa pretty much proves that. I live in reality. Being on the field most of the half due to the loss of Clifford was huge and a fact, but they never should have lost. If Clifford plays it wouldn’t have mattered. Please come back at the end of the year. If Iowa is as good as you think, shouldn’t be an issue, and I will bow to the greater intellect. I seriously doubt I have anything to worry about.
 

schoolie

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Oct 23, 2001
7,046
5,479
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Mentioned Penn State dominated first half against Iowa before QB's injury. This appears to be the national opinion as the poll drop was not too great with a chance, based on future schedule to climb back up. I will say Iowa was exposed as a very average team, pedestrian offense, decent defense, not nearly as advertised. With Clifford, final would have been about 31 -10. PSU would have moved the ball denying continued field position to Iowa.
Truer words were never spoken. Thank.