Another look at Durham/Fox

fbh1

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Wow, I just watched the first 30 seconds.

The journalist starts off with a lie. I’m done right there.
Typical... watch the other 13 minutes and you might actually learn something. I dare you to watch it and then refute it. Sad commentary on your intelligence. Shut your mind to anything that opposes your beliefs. Very mature.... Tell you what, since it is impossible to deal with you on an intellectual level... I suggest you put me on ignore. We both will be probably happier that way.
 

PSUEngineer89

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Typical... watch the other 13 minutes and you might actually learn something. I dare you to watch it and then refute it. Sad commentary on your intelligence. Shut your mind to anything that opposes your beliefs. Very mature.... Tell you what, since it is impossible to deal with you on an intellectual level... I suggest you put me on ignore. We both will be probably happier that way.

Tell the journalist to not lie right out of the gate.

5 people killed. Bullshit.

Yet, you are not upset by that lie, are you?
 

fbh1

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Tell the journalist to not lie right out of the gate.

5 people killed. Bullshit.

Yet, you are not upset by that lie, are you?
The purpose of this piece was not to determine anything about Jan. 6. It was to reveal what happened as a result of Trump's pressuring Raffensperger about the Georgia election and the 1 hour plus call to him. If you actually watched the interview and listen to the 2 republican officials as well as the recording of Trump's voice... it would become clear to even you that what Trump attempted to do crossed the line. However, if you don't ever watch it, I guess it never has to be true as far as you are concerned. Is that how you do things?
 

dailybuck777

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Don't focus on that statement if it bothers you... focus on what Raff... Sterling... and Trump actually say. Its hard to misconstrue what is happening and what is being said. If you can't even admit as to what Trump was actually saying and trying to accomplish, then there is no reason to continue this. You will only believe what you want to believe. Proof will not matter to you.
I listened to the whole tape and it is exactly as I thought. Trump's stupidly and delusionally argued that he won Georgia and was saying that the Georgia officials had to stop the fraud against him. He was 100% wrong but he wasn't asking them to manufacture votes for him. Neither of the officials said that either. They said they were pressured by Trump to follow his delusional conclusions about the election.

Parenthetically, I am happy that the Georgia officials were professional and ethical and did a good job.

I would challenge you to find one statement where Trump indicated that he didn't believe he won and that he wanted fake votes to overturn an honest election for Biden.

What Trump is doing is exactly what the Democrats do with respect to Russia gate. They take things out of context, such as a 1 and 1/2 minute meeting of Trump's son with Russian officials where there was zero collusion and zero collusion follow up and use the fact of a one and a half minute meeting to claim that there was collusion. Exactly the same methodology of argument.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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The purpose of this piece was not to determine anything about Jan. 6. It was to reveal what happened as a result of Trump's pressuring Raffensperger about the Georgia election and the 1 hour plus call to him. If you actually watched the interview and listen to the 2 republican officials as well as the recording of Trump's voice... it would become clear to even you that what Trump attempted to do crossed the line. However, if you don't ever watch it, I guess it never has to be true as far as you are concerned. Is that how you do things?
I did try to watch it. When you lie out of the gate, you don’t get to be assumed to be honest from that point.

I rightfully conclude that the journalist POS is going to lie from there forward.

You, I assume, believe anything a journalist tells you.

Even leaking pipes that aren’t leaking.
 

fbh1

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I listened to the whole tape and it is exactly as I thought. Trump's stupidly and delusionally argued that he won Georgia and was saying that the Georgia officials had to stop the fraud against him. He was 100% wrong but he wasn't asking them to manufacture votes for him. Neither of the officials said that either. They said they were pressured by Trump to follow his delusional conclusions about the election.

Parenthetically, I am happy that the Georgia officials were professional and ethical and did a good job.

I would challenge you to find one statement where Trump indicated that he didn't believe he won and that he wanted fake votes to overturn an honest election for Biden.

What Trump is doing is exactly what the Democrats do with respect to Russia gate. They take things out of context, such as a 1 and 1/2 minute meeting of Trump's son with Russian officials where there was zero collusion and zero collusion follow up and use the fact of a one and a half minute meeting to claim that there was collusion. Exactly the same methodology of argument.
At the end of the video it was pretty clear to me when Trump started discussing Raffensperger being potentially held criminally liable that not only I but Raff... also took that as a threat. If you want to discuss what the Dems have done, I will be happy to do so as part of another discussion. If there is as much proof that they did what has been claimed as there is with this taped recording of this conversation... I am in total agreement that they need to be held accountable. So far, I haven't seen any rock hard evidence that they are guilty. Perhaps that will come in the future. I have seen and heard what Trump attempted in Georgia. As president of the United States, I think that his actions were deplorable.

At least you are willing to discuss things in an objective manner. Not like some of the other posters. as you posted, we both agree that Trump's arguments were both stupid and delusional. I don't think he actually said that he wanted to fake votes... but it was obvious that he wanted to have Raff find a way to either come up with 11,780 more votes or to disqualify that many Biden votes. How many times did he put Raff on the defensive by asking him what he intended to do to get him the votes he needed. It doesn't take much imagination to understand what he had in mind.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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At the end of the video it was pretty clear to me when Trump started discussing Raffensperger being potentially held criminally liable that not only I but Raff... also took that as a threat. If you want to discuss what the Dems have done, I will be happy to do so as part of another discussion. If there is as much proof that they did what has been claimed as there is with this taped recording of this conversation... I am in total agreement that they need to be held accountable. So far, I haven't seen any rock hard evidence that they are guilty. Perhaps that will come in the future. I have seen and heard what Trump attempted in Georgia. As president of the United States, I think that his actions were deplorable.

At least you are willing to discuss things in an objective manner. Not like some of the other posters. as you posted, we both agree that Trump's arguments were both stupid and delusional. I don't think he actually said that he wanted to fake votes... but it was obvious that he wanted to have Raff find a way to either come up with 11,780 more votes or to disqualify that many Biden votes. How many times did he put Raff on the defensive by asking him what he intended to do to get him the votes he needed. It doesn't take much imagination to understand what he had in mind.
Yeah, sure, Trump wanted him to find the votes.

Know why?

Because he reasonably believed dems were cheating.

You are, in fact, the only R who doesn’t get upset by the irregularities.
 

fbh1

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Yeah, sure, Trump wanted him to find the votes.

Know why?

Because he reasonably believed dems were cheating.

You are, in fact, the only R who doesn’t get upset by the irregularities.
How about Liz Cheney? Adam Kinzinger? I have a bunch of republican friends that used to like him but want almost anyone then him as a candidate for 2024. Regardless of what he thought, it doesn’t give him the right to try to intimidate a state official to “find” the votes he needs or else…. Since you haven’t watched the video it’s hard for you to legitimately disagree.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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How about Liz Cheney? Adam Kinzinger? I have a bunch of republican friends that used to like him but want almost anyone then him as a candidate for 2024. Regardless of what he thought, it doesn’t give him the right to try to intimidate a state official to “find” the votes he needs or else…. Since you haven’t watched the video it’s hard for you to legitimately disagree.
You've got to be joking.

Seriously. We hate Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.

They're not Republicans any more than Manchin is a democrat.

Once the jurnalist starts lying, why would I watch him further? He has already shown his bias.

Let's vote for Thomas Massie, a guy we all can agree is smart.

Enough stupid people.
 
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fbh1

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You've got to be joking.

Seriously. We hate Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.

They're not Republicans any more than Manchin is a democrat.

Once the jurnalist starts lying, why would I watch him further? He has already shown his bias.

Let's vote for Thomas Massie, a guy we all can agree is smart.

Enough stupid people.
In other words they aren't Trumpsters... Liz Cheney voted 92% of the time for the republican position. She is more of a republican than you will ever be. That's one of the problems today. People like you equate blindly following Trump with being a republican. I'm not sure where that started, but you are going to see more an more republicans break away from the Trumpster because they are going to realize that he is far from the best thing for the party. In fact, he doesn't really care about the party unless it is 100% in lockstep behind him.

Why should you watch? Because you might just learn that you are wrong. Ignoring the information makes you truly ignorant. Hide your face in the sand and you won't have to deal with reality. Fast forward through the first 30 seconds and learn something. If you did, I might take you seriously.
 
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Hotshoe

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In other words they aren't Trumpsters... Liz Cheney voted 92% of the time for the republican position. She is more of a republican than you will ever be. That's one of the problems today. People like you equate blindly following Trump with being a republican. I'm not sure where that started, but you are going to see more an more republicans break away from the Trumpster because they are going to realize that he is far from the best thing for the party. In fact, he doesn't really care about the party unless it is 100% in lockstep behind him.

Why should you watch? Because you might just learn that you are wrong. Ignoring the information makes you truly ignorant. Hide your face in the sand and you won't have to deal with reality. Fast forward through the first 30 seconds and learn something. If you did, I might take you seriously.
60 minutes, like the Post and NY Times, are biased as hell. Their very first comment was a lie. 5 people did not die. One person died. She wasn't armed and was shot by a police officer. Why was a female shot? Furthermore, the Post had to issue a correction regarding Georgia. Try to keep up.
 

royboy

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In other words they aren't Trumpsters... Liz Cheney voted 92% of the time for the republican position. She is more of a republican than you will ever be. That's one of the problems today. People like you equate blindly following Trump with being a republican. I'm not sure where that started, but you are going to see more an more republicans break away from the Trumpster because they are going to realize that he is far from the best thing for the party. In fact, he doesn't really care about the party unless it is 100% in lockstep behind him.

Why should you watch? Because you might just learn that you are wrong. Ignoring the information makes you truly ignorant. Hide your face in the sand and you won't have to deal with reality. Fast forward through the first 30 seconds and learn something. If you did, I might take you seriously.
So you're going to tell Republicans that they should like Liz Cheney?

That's not going to fly.
 
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dailybuck777

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In other words they aren't Trumpsters... Liz Cheney voted 92% of the time for the republican position. She is more of a republican than you will ever be. That's one of the problems today. People like you equate blindly following Trump with being a republican. I'm not sure where that started, but you are going to see more an more republicans break away from the Trumpster because they are going to realize that he is far from the best thing for the party. In fact, he doesn't really care about the party unless it is 100% in lockstep behind him.

Why should you watch? Because you might just learn that you are wrong. Ignoring the information makes you truly ignorant. Hide your face in the sand and you won't have to deal with reality. Fast forward through the first 30 seconds and learn something. If you did, I might take you seriously.
Cheney it's a disgusting warmonger in the tradition of her awful father Dick. Has been 100% wrong on one of the most consequential issues of the last 30 years.
 
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fbh1

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60 minutes, like the Post and NY Times, are biased as hell. Their very first comment was a lie. 5 people did not die. One person died. She wasn't armed and was shot by a police officer. Why was a female shot? Furthermore, the Post had to issue a correction regarding Georgia. Try to keep up.
I'm not going to dispute what was said the first 30 seconds of the interview. 5 people did die, but we do not know in most cases that it was a direct result of the riot. We have been through that discussion before. However, it is hard to dispute what is shown the other 13 minutes if the video. All you are trying to do deflect from the FACT that Trump tried to intimidate the Sec. of State of Georgia to "find" the votes that were not there.. that he needed... even though the Sec. of State ( a loyal republican) told him that he can't because they found no irregularities with the counting of the vote. He and his assistant (also a loyal republican) did not have to be coaxed into saying anything. If you watched the video it speaks for itself. Why don't you just face reality... the proof of that is there for anyone who wants to actually know the truth... to find it. If you want to also put your head in the sand... be my guest. You can't change what happened by ignoring reality.
 
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fbh1

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Cheney it's a disgusting warmonger in the tradition of her awful father Dick. Has been 100% wrong on one of the most consequential issues of the last 30 years.
So she hasn't been a republican? At least she has the courage to stand by her convictions regarding Trump.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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In other words they aren't Trumpsters... Liz Cheney voted 92% of the time for the republican position. She is more of a republican than you will ever be. That's one of the problems today. People like you equate blindly following Trump with being a republican. I'm not sure where that started, but you are going to see more an more republicans break away from the Trumpster because they are going to realize that he is far from the best thing for the party. In fact, he doesn't really care about the party unless it is 100% in lockstep behind him.

Why should you watch? Because you might just learn that you are wrong. Ignoring the information makes you truly ignorant. Hide your face in the sand and you won't have to deal with reality. Fast forward through the first 30 seconds and learn something. If you did, I might take you seriously.

It’s hard to know what to do.

I won’t vote for any R who can get along with the deep state.

Trump, obviously, has his warts. But he also fights.

Honestly, any traditional R, we don’t need.

I also have no issue with Trump pressuring two pussies who get along just fine with Dems (pence).
 

Hotshoe

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I'm not going to dispute what was said the first 30 seconds of the interview. 5 people did die, but we do not know in most cases that it was a direct result of the riot. We have been through that discussion before. However, it is hard to dispute what is shown the other 13 minutes if the video. All you are trying to do deflect from the FACT that Trump tried to intimidate the Sec. of State of Georgia to "find" the votes that were not there.. that he needed... even though the Sec. of State ( a loyal republican) told him that he can't because they found no irregularities with the counting of the vote. He and his assistant (also a loyal republican) did not have to be coaxed into saying anything. If you watched the video it speaks for itself. Why don't you just face reality... the proof of that is there for anyone who wants to actually know the truth... to find it. If you want to also put your head in the sand... be my guest. You can't change what happened by ignoring reality.
No I'm not. I believe Trump was not only wrong, but he made an absolute fool of himself. He needs to go away, permanently. I can't be more clear. That said, only one person died on the 6th, an unarmed American female veteran. That is a fact.
 

dailybuck777

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So she hasn't been a republican? At least she has the courage to stand by her convictions regarding Trump.
Her position regarding Trump is wrong and simply plays into the hands of lying Democrats like Pelosi. January 6th was a moderate riot which was nothing compared to the summer of insurrection in 2020. Not one shot was fired and there was no insurrection. Trump didn't incite violence although he stood by and did nothing when it occurred and when he should have intervened earlier. Recently an attempted assassin was bailed out by black lives matter in Louisville for $100,000 while people who didn't fire a shot on January 6th are held in solitary confinement without bail. She is supporting a false narrative and unequal justice.

Additionally, Russiagate was way way worse than January 6th and the Democrats take no responsibility for their 18 mo. attempted coup effort, based on entirely manufactured evidence. In fact, the chief liar with respect to Russiagate, Adam Schiff was appointed to lead Pelosi's impeachment attempt and part of the impeachment attempt was the massive lie that officer Sicknick died from a blow to the head.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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No I'm not. I believe Trump was not only wrong, but he made an absolute fool of himself. He needs to go away, permanently. I can't be more clear. That said, only one person died on the 6th, an unarmed American female veteran. That is a fact.
Why? So we can get another weak willed R who will expand the power of the deep state even more?

I get your distaste, I truly do. But I’m not convinced anyone will fight.

Look at GWB. He did nothing to stop the cancer.
 

fbh1

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No I'm not. I believe Trump was not only wrong, but he made an absolute fool of himself. He needs to go away, permanently. I can't be more clear. That said, only one person died on the 6th, an unarmed American female veteran. That is a fact.
I have already agreed with you as far as how many people actually died as a direct result of Jan. 6. Not sure what else I have to say. This discussion was about Trump trying to intimidate officials in Georgia to "find" the votes needed for him to win the state... even if they weren't there. I also agree... "he needs to go away".
 

PSUEngineer89

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I have already agreed with you as far as how many people actually died as a direct result of Jan. 6. Not sure what else I have to say. This discussion was about Trump trying to intimidate officials in Georgia to "find" the votes needed for him to win the state... even if they weren't there. I also agree... "he needs to go away".
In no way do you have evidence he wanted anyone to find invalid votes.

None.

He is clearly a guy who honestly believes he was cheated. I think he’s right.

You have no proof at all.
 

fbh1

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Her position regarding Trump is wrong and simply plays into the hands of lying Democrats like Pelosi. January 6th was a moderate riot which was nothing compared to the summer of insurrection in 2020. Not one shot was fired and there was no insurrection. Trump didn't incite violence although he stood by and did nothing when it occurred and when he should have intervened earlier. Recently an attempted assassin was bailed out by black lives matter in Louisville for $100,000 while people who didn't fire a shot on January 6th are held in solitary confinement without bail. She is supporting a false narrative and unequal justice.

Additionally, Russiagate was way way worse than January 6th and the Democrats take no responsibility for their 18 mo. attempted coup effort, based on entirely manufactured evidence. In fact, the chief liar with respect to Russiagate, Adam Schiff was appointed to lead Pelosi's impeachment attempt and part of the impeachment attempt was the massive lie that officer Sicknick died from a blow to the head.
I'm not sure that I can agree with you on everything you posted... but again, my intent was to call Trump out for what he did when he tried to intimidate the Georgia election officials. All anyone has to do is watch the video to see what happened. Regardless of what was stated in the first 30 seconds... the rest of the video speaks for itself.
 

fbh1

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In no way do you have evidence he wanted anyone to find invalid votes.

None.

He is clearly a guy who honestly believes he was cheated. I think he’s right.

You have no proof at all.
That's a great statement coming from someone that didn't even watch the video and what the two officials said as well as Trump's recorded voice. How do you know what proof is if you won't even check it out. Is that what you were taught at PSU? Hope not....
 

fbh1

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That's a great statement coming from someone that didn't even watch the video and what the two officials said as well as Trump's recorded voice. How do you know what proof is if you won't even check it out. Is that what you were taught at PSU? Hope not....
I'm heading to a dinner so I won't be at my computer for a few hours... I can't wait to see the responses that I get....
 

PSUEngineer89

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That's a great statement coming from someone that didn't even watch the video and what the two officials said as well as Trump's recorded voice. How do you know what proof is if you won't even check it out. Is that what you were taught at PSU? Hope not....
So, there will be evidence on the 60 minute video that starters with a lie?

Ok, I’ll watch it.
 

PSUEngineer89

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OK, I watched that video. Worst thing about it was they just didn't play the tape and let it speak for itself.

In any event, exactly as I thought - Trump truly believed he had been cheated (I see you're still not worried ONE BIT about the false, fake broken pipe excuse to stop counting, and as an R, you seem completely OK with all the counting when no witnesses were there at 3 am), and wanted to find enough votes to give him the state.

I'm completely fine with it.
 

bourbon n blues

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The problem is not how you describe Trump. The problem is that you could replace his name with the name of just about any other politician in DC and be accurate.

Hillary was just worse than Trump in my opinion. I don’t fault anyone who thinks the opposite.

Hillary made the mistake of letting us know that she didn’t like us deplorables. She also made it clear that she believed in the two coast economy with the flyovers being irrelevant.

Trump somehow tapped into the working person demo. My theory is that he only cares for people who care for him. As his popularity grew in the non elite demos, he genuinely began to care about them. For better or worse, his narcissism brought about this result. Union heads hated Trump; union members began to like him. Democrats still don’t seem to understand this phenomenon. Biden sure doesn‘t get it.
Kind of knowing where your bread is buttered,
 

junior1

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How about Liz Cheney? Adam Kinzinger? I have a bunch of republican friends that used to like him but want almost anyone then him as a candidate for 2024. Regardless of what he thought, it doesn’t give him the right to try to intimidate a state official to “find” the votes he needs or else…. Since you haven’t watched the video it’s hard for you to legitimately disagree.
OK, I think Biden has been President since Jan 20, 2021. Whomever he was running against didn't win. Isn't it really that simple?
Intimidate a state/federal/elected official? Are you serious? It happens every day in our nation's capitol. As Biden said when asked about the intimidation of sen Sinema "it's part of the process". If you don't think that sinema and manchin are being intimidated daily you haven't been playing close attention. Intimidation is a way of life in our political system
 

PSUEngineer89

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OK, I think Biden has been President since Jan 20, 2021. Whomever he was running against didn't win. Isn't it really that simple?
Intimidate a state/federal/elected official? Are you serious? It happens every day in our nation's capitol. As Biden said when asked about the intimidation of sen Sinema "it's part of the process". If you don't think that sinema and manchin are being intimidated daily you haven't been playing close attention. Intimidation is a way of life in our political system
Biden has never been president.

The federal bureaucracy has been in charge since March 2020.

Almost two full years.
 

bourbon n blues

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You've got to be joking.

Seriously. We hate Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.

They're not Republicans any more than Manchin is a democrat.

Once the jurnalist starts lying, why would I watch him further? He has already shown his bias.

Let's vote for Thomas Massie, a guy we all can agree is smart.

Enough stupid people.
Massad Ayoob , a noted police trainer and expert witness said this about telling the truth in relation to having credibility with a jury: if you suck one c$&k you're a c$&ksucker, so if you tell one lie you're a liar.
So why believe a reporter who does the same?
 
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fbh1

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OK, I watched that video. Worst thing about it was they just didn't play the tape and let it speak for itself.

In any event, exactly as I thought - Trump truly believed he had been cheated (I see you're still not worried ONE BIT about the false, fake broken pipe excuse to stop counting, and as an R, you seem completely OK with all the counting when no witnesses were there at 3 am), and wanted to find enough votes to give him the state.

I'm completely fine with it.

This is a copy of the full 102 minutes of the tape of the call. If this isn't pressuring someone to do what they have no right to do... I don't know what it is. the only thing I can be sure of is that you will minimalize it and say that it is perfectly okay. because Trump without any actual verifiable evidence ... is sure the election was stolen from him. This somehow makes it okay...

This version contains no commentary and if you listen to all of it, it proves just how hard Trump tried to pressure Raffensperger to find his needed votes... whether they existed or not. Thankfully, Raff resisted the pressure and did the right thing. I don't care what Trump believed.. the vote count is what it is and Georgia officials audited the vote several times. Believe what you want... I believe this whole effort shows just how corrupt Trump can be.