A Solution to Yawnstipating Dancing Bear "Wrestling"...

[NittanyChris]

It's true that as a Penn State Wrestling fan, I've become a bit spoiled. I enjoy seeing wrestlers push for takedowns, always busting their tails to turn a decision into a major, a major into a tech, etc, by going all out until the very last second.
The opposite of this exhilirating style of wrestling is the Sam Stoll, hang on the head, never take a shot and win 1-0 in SV. Aside from being a major non-pharmaceutical sedative, it has little to no value. I mean, if I can't sleep, I'll take Melatonin or something.
So how do we rid the world of this eyesore?
It's simple, eliminate 285 as a division. Replace it with a cutoff that all but guarantees the wrestlers will be more athletic and physically able to push the action. i'd propose 250, but this number is open for discussion. Again, I don't want to add another division, but eliminate 285 and replace with a lower weight class.
What do people think? Are ya with me?
WE ARE!!!

 

[District four]

It's true that as a Penn State Wrestling fan, I've become a bit spoiled. I enjoy seeing wrestlers push for takedowns, always busting their tails to turn a decision into a major, a major into a tech, etc, by going all out until the very last second.
The opposite of this exhilirating style of wrestling is the Sam Stoll, hang on the head, never take a shot and win 1-0 in SV. Aside from being a major non-pharmaceutical sedative, it has little to no value. I mean, if I can't sleep, I'll take Melatonin or something.
So how do we rid the world of this eyesore?
It's simple, eliminate 285 as a division. Replace it with a cutoff that all but guarantees the wrestlers will be more athletic and physically able to push the action. i'd propose 250, but this number is open for discussion. Again, I don't want to add another division, but eliminate 285 and replace with a lower weight class.
What do people think? Are ya with me?
WE ARE!!!

No

 

[SJP80]

Wrong solution

 

[manatree]

There is a lot of yawn inducing passive wrestling at other weights. Instead of collar ties you have meaningless feints, head taps, and hand fighting. Call them dancing bears, dancing weasels, spastic monkeys, passive wrestling is passive wrestling no matter the weight class.

 

[RandyL]

I have been in favor of this proposal for about ever.
230 sounds good to me. 240 max.

 

[jmadden1998]

The only solution is to eliminate all wrestlers from consideration for the NCAA tournament, as determined by a BWI committee, who are deemed to be too passive. Mark Hall gets a pass because he is deemed to be such a cerebral wrestler that he doesnt have to blow out unranked opponents. Once this is done you won’t have to worry about ducking and could get back to discussing the actual action on the mat instead of who isn’t there. Who’s with me?

 

[PSUbluTX]

The only solution is to eliminate all wrestlers from consideration for the NCAA tournament, as determined by a BWI committee, who are deemed to be too passive. Mark Hall gets a pass because he is deemed to be such a cerebral wrestler that he doesnt have to blow out unranked opponents. Once this is done you won’t have to worry about ducking and could get back to discussing the actual action on the mat instead of who isn’t there. Who’s with me?

FINALLY some common sense from one of our Iowa friends.

 

[jmadden1998]

FINALLY some common sense from one of our Iowa friends.

I’m an idea guy. However, you may be only left to do an instrasquad tournament since it would be hard for the committee to find other teams who wrestle the PSU way. I guess Rec Hall would host nationals every year.

 

[horraybeer]

The only solution is to eliminate all wrestlers from consideration for the NCAA tournament, as determined by a BWI committee, who are deemed to be too passive. Mark Hall gets a pass because he is deemed to be such a cerebral wrestler that he doesnt have to blow out unranked opponents. Once this is done you won’t have to worry about ducking and could get back to discussing the actual action on the mat instead of who isn’t there. Who’s with me?

Hall has 70 wins 65% bonus with 28 pins.

 

[El-Jefe]

I have been in favor of this proposal for about ever.
230 sounds good to me. 240 max.

You just eliminated Nick Gwiazdowski.

Also made Team USA non-competitve at 125 kg.

 

[NittanyChris]

There is a lot of yawn inducing passive wrestling at other weights. Instead of collar ties you have meaningless feints, head taps, and hand fighting. Call them dancing bears, dancing weasels, spastic monkeys, passive wrestling is passive wrestling no matter the weight class.

Just to clarify, you're suggesting HWT wrestlers, on average, are just as active as wrestlers at all other weights?

 

[jmadden1998]

Hall has 70 wins 65% bonus with 28 pins.

I was talking more about this year

Video Opponent School Date Event Weight W/L By How
#8 Kutler, Jordan (5 - 2) #10 Lehigh 12/02 Lehigh - Penn State Dual 174 W DEC 6 - 2
#75 Stephani, Nick (4 - 4) #57 Bucknell 11/30 Penn State - Bucknell Dual 174 W MD 20 - 7
#50 Walton, George (8 - 5) #40 Rider 11/18 Keystone Classic 174 W FALL 3:35
#20 Richards, Neal (11 - 4) #74 VMI 11/18 Keystone Classic 174 W DEC 5 - 0
#16 Finesilver, Matt (10 - 3) #48 Duke 11/18 Keystone Classic 174 W DEC 6 - 4
#139 Hoffman, Jason (1 - 3) #31 Drexel 11/18 Keystone Classic 174 W FALL 4:40
#81 Barreiro, Dylan (13 - 7) #64 Kent State 11/11 Kent State - Penn State Dual 174 W FALL 3:34

 

[nitlion6]

The only solution is to eliminate all wrestlers from consideration for the NCAA tournament, as determined by a BWI committee, who are deemed to be too passive. Mark Hall gets a pass because he is deemed to be such a cerebral wrestler that he doesnt have to blow out unranked opponents. Once this is done you won’t have to worry about ducking and could get back to discussing the actual action on the mat instead of who isn’t there. Who’s with me?

So you are proposing Iowa wrestlers duck everybody? That seems extreme.

 

[jmadden1998]

So you are proposing Iowa wrestlers duck everybody? That seems extreme.

They wouldn’t need to duck anybody because they would be the first ones eliminated by the BWI committee so couldn’t wrestle nationals anyway

 

[IaGodsCountry]

Lol, eliminate the Iowa wrestler's! I have a feeling hwt is going to get a bit more exciting...

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

You just eliminated Nick Gwiazdowski.

Also made Team USA non-competitve at 125 kg.

It's not a perfect solution, but there are a more positives than negatives IMO. If guys like Gwiz were more common, you would have a better argument. And to be fair, I'm more interested in college wrestling than international wrestling.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

I like two higher weight classes better maybe 230 and 285, but if we agree just one for heavyweights I would rather see more athletic guys at about 250 Max.

 

[SRATH]

220 and the the traditional hwt would work, imho. Big guys could grow into the weight and it would be reasonably aligned with intl wgts.

 

[ptdan]

We are coming up on a golden age of HWTs. Look at the crop of very talented, athletic hwts. The 230-250 pound athletic type will be the dominate prototype over the next 5 years. BTW I also, would like to see a 220 pound classification added. With 11 wt. classes, ties would simply be most matches won.

 

[Dogwelder]

What kind of modest proposal is this? Nobody is being converted to food whatsoever. #soft

 

[Cowbell Man]

We are coming up on a golden age of HWTs. Look at the crop of very talented, athletic hwts. The 230-250 pound athletic type will be the dominate prototype over the next 5 years. BTW I also, would like to see a 220 pound classification added. With 11 wt. classes, ties would simply be most matches won.

Yes. A 220. It won’t eliminate the dancing bears but sheesh...if some think today’s dancing bears are bad, they weren’t around for Tab Thacker and UNL.

 

[CropDuster507]

My team had a guy down 10 pts in the third because he couldn't stop a leg attack to save his life. It was truly odd. Anyways, other kid was dinged for stalling. Our guy shoots and scores. The other kid was building up, and ours caught an arm bar. We turn him over, because that's what we do, and pin him.

As he and his coach walk by me and a group of other wrestlers, he says, "I don't care. You're up by 10 points, you go ahead and stall. You didn't even need that stand up. Just stall there."

I look to one of our other wrestlers by me, and we made the "Did you just hear that?" glance... I turned to him and said, "And that's why his wrestler got beat and we got our hand raised."

Sorry, brag post. Point being: Active Wrestling wins every time. Miss me with any this negative wrestling/stall bullshit. Go down fighting.

 

[El-Jefe]

It's not a perfect solution, but there are a more positives than negatives IMO. If guys like Gwiz were more common, you would have a better argument. And to be fair, I'm more interested in college wrestling than international wrestling.

Go watch the Coon-Haines match and llet me know what you think of Coon being too big and too statuesque.

Can't find that one? Coon-Neviils will also do, plus Nevills outweighs Haines.

OBTW, Stevenson is also over 250.

The answer isn't shrinking the athletes. It's the refs actively forcing the action. Just like we never thought they'd do to Tony Nelson.

 

[Junglekitty]

The only argument I can make to add/subtract a weight is due to ties. Having an odd number of weights would make tie breakers pretty effortless. But I think it’s more prevalent in high school than in college.

I think everyone is going to be extremely excited to watch heavyweight over the next couple of years. There’s some real talented, athletic, light footed heavys coming on the scene in the next few years; gable, cass, kirk, Nevills, Ferrari ( if he’s a heavy ), hopefully another season of Cassar just to name a few.

Heavyweight will be a weight over the next coming years that fans will be, or should be, waiting to see imo.

 

[NittanyChris]

Go watch the Coon-Haines match and llet me know what you think of Coon being too big and too statuesque.

Can't find that one? Coon-Neviils will also do, plus Nevills outweighs Haines.

OBTW, Stevenson is also over 250.

The answer isn't shrinking the athletes. It's the refs actively forcing the action. Just like we never thought they'd do to Tony Nelson.

Coon was the exception, not the rule. And I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for Gable to cut the five pounds needed to make 250.
NO MORE DANCING BEARS!

 

[a_mshaffer]

too make it fair, as a lightweight, the heavies should at least have to go without water for 24 hours prior to weigh in's!

 

[NittanyChris]

The only argument I can make to add/subtract a weight is due to ties. Having an odd number of weights would make tie breakers pretty effortless. But I think it’s more prevalent in high school than in college.

I think everyone is going to be extremely excited to watch heavyweight over the next couple of years. There’s some real talented, athletic, light footed heavys coming on the scene in the next few years; gable, cass, kirk, Nevills, Ferrari ( if he’s a heavy ), hopefully another season of Cassar just to name a few.

Heavyweight will be a weight over the next coming years that fans will be, or should be, waiting to see imo.

Every single one of those studs you mentioned are below 250, except Gable who is 255 and could easily cut to 250. Point is, none of them are dancing bears.

 

[Junglekitty]

Every single one of those studs you mentioned are below 250, except Gable who is 255 and could easily cut to 250. Point is, none of them are dancing bears.

I never mentioned anything about adding a 220 or making the limit 250. Only making the statement that heavyweight will be interesting to watch in the near future. Actually there are interesting matches this year that will have a lot of action and excitement in them. I mentioned this regardless of what these guys are weighing in at.

My mention of adding/subtracting a weight class was more of a general statement. Adding/rearranging the weights so having an odd number would make ties “effortless” in figuring out. I also added that it was more prevalent in high school.

In my opinion, I like the way things are. Ties don’t happen all that often to warrant adding/subtracting a weight. I don’t see lowering the limit on heavyweight or adding a “light” heavyweight would improve the sport as a whole. If you do add a light heavyweight, let’s say 220ish, I think it would water down heavyweight considering all the names I have mentioned. If you limit the weight to 250, you take out the gwizs and Adam coons. While those guys are few and far between they’re still relevant and very much a big part of college and USA wrestling.

 

[Dogwelder]

I was chairman of Prom Committee a long time ago. We saw a problem that kids were bad at dancing. So everyone on the Committee proposed solutions, such as:
“Let’s teach workshops on good dancing!”
“Let’s create incentives that reward good dancing and that punish bad dancing!”
And the like.

In the end, I was the decider, and I decided my own proposal was best:
“Let’s ban white people from Prom!”

 

[ItalianLion]

240 max

Oh oh... there goes my chance of returning to the mat!

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

The dancing issue is more about attitude/approach than weight class. Force more aggressiveness in matches and the dancing bear will start to disappear.

 

[RoarLions1]

For the past 3 years, the 285 weight class had 61 total Bonus Point matches at NCAA's, not including DQ's or FFT's, or INJDEF's.

For the past 3 years, the 197 weight class had 59 total Bonus Point matches at NCAA's, not including DQ's or FFT's, or INJDEF's.

Used 3 years to get a larger sample size, so it's a bit more statistically significant.

Don't change a thing, imo.

 

[SWPA]

Standing around for 7 minutes and not shooting isn't a weight issue, it's a wait issue.

 

[7brwnpsu]

Wanting to eliminate a weight class is nothing new, Ohio State wanted to eliminate 157lb last year and this year!

 

[PSU Mike]

There’s an interesting “dynamic” about having a conversation about an odd number of weight classes — making a simple tiebreaker — mixed in with a thread about unexciting wrestling: the team with the fewer victories got more team points per victory. In other words they easily could have been the team that provided more entertaining moments.