76 people OD in Connecticut park yesterday

[BBrown]

And the number of auto accidents have gone up as well (in Colorado and the other states that have legalized it).

Like I said I treat weed the same as I do alcohol. I don't drive or operate heavy machinery on it.
But I'm not sure that what you stated is accurate. I've seen too many reports that can't even agree
on it.
It seems that many of these cases also have Alcohol involved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-rates/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ad9ee1eaa658

https://bigthink.com/21st-century-s...fatal-car-crashes-in-states-with-legalization

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/21/auto-crashes-are-on-the-rise-in-marijuana-states.html

Bottom line is I don't want anyone driving while high.

 

[BBrown]

Not sure if it's accurate and it's probably too early to tell but there's reports of increased homelessness in states there pot has been legalized. Not sure the accuracy so I'm not stating it as fact but found it an interesting tidbit.

That might be true. I know CO and Seattle and now especially CA have a huge homeless problem but they also happen to be some of the most "giving" states (read that liberal if you want) regarding homelessness.
I know when I was in San Fran and Denver before they legalized it I had already saw a homeless problem so, at least to me like the car accidents, I'm having a hard time blaming it entirely on weed.

 

[BBrown]

They also have this thing called coffee that does the same thing (or in Bob’s case, lattes).

and no one wants to see Bob when he's all hopped up on lattes from Starbucks....
...Sorry Bob.

 

[KnightSlayer]

They did and they still smoke the fake stuff.

PS> Crime went up in Colorado.

Nonsensical statement.

 

[AWS1022]

Like I said I treat weed the same as I do alcohol. I don't drive or operate heavy machinery on it.
But I'm not sure that what you stated is accurate. I've seen too many reports that can't even agree
on it.
It seems that many of these cases also have Alcohol involved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-rates/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ad9ee1eaa658

https://bigthink.com/21st-century-s...fatal-car-crashes-in-states-with-legalization

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/21/auto-crashes-are-on-the-rise-in-marijuana-states.html

Bottom line is I don't want anyone driving while high.

I work in the Insurance industry and we use the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety’s reports. My company doesn’t do business in any of three states, so we don’t have company accident history to go by.

 

[KnightSlayer]

And the number of auto accidents have gone up as well (in Colorado and the other states that have legalized it).

More bullshit.

 

[Madsol]

LOL, seriously? C'mon people can "abuse" anything. Do we get rid of food? I mean there certainly more people that die from being overweight or the reprocussions of that than OD on pot.

Because food is readily available, pot isn't. And people who abuse food aren't a danger to others. Interesting that you didn't answer my question...knowing that there will be a certain percentage of people who will abuse pot if it's legalized who will not abuse it if it isn't, how does it benefit us to introduce those people into society?

 

[MtNittany]

Exactly.

Yep - I know medical MJ oil/vape eligibles that simply buy the illegal stuff because it's cheaper. Ironically smuggled from CO.

 

[Kmase21]

And the number of auto accidents have gone up as well (in Colorado and the other states that have legalized it).

auto accidents have gone up because drinking and driving is a problem in Colorado. Open roads at excessive speeds. Has nothing to do with the weed, man.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Because food is readily available, pot isn't. And people who abuse food aren't a danger to others. Interesting that you didn't answer my question...knowing that there will be a certain percentage of people who will abuse pot if it's legalized who will not abuse it if it isn't, how does it benefit us to introduce those people into society?

For one, 600,000 people per year won't be arrested for possession of pot. Two, abusing pot is far less dangerous than abusing many other things that are currently legal. The rest of your post is just some baseless assumption.

 

[Madsol]

For one, 600,000 people per year won't be arrested for possession of pot. Two, abusing pot is far less dangerous than abusing many other things that are currently legal. Not sure what the bolded part of your statement even means.

People that abuse any drug are not a benefit to society, at least IMHO. So the bolded part meant we need to acknowledge that if pot is legalized all of a sudden we're going to have a certain percentage of people abusing the drug who wouldn't have abused it had it remained illegal and what impact that will have on society. There has to be some impact, I'm just not sure how extreme. I think it's a fair question to ask.

 

[BBrown]

Because food is readily available, pot isn't. And people who abuse food aren't a danger to others. Interesting that you didn't answer my question...knowing that there will be a certain percentage of people who will abuse pot if it's legalized who will not abuse it if it isn't, how does it benefit us to introduce those people into society?

People don't abuse food just because its readily available, they have a predisposition for it. Same with alcohol and probably the same with pot.
Why do you find it interesting that I didn't answer? I've been completely honest with everything I posted as it pertains and regards me.

and quite frankly after reading your sentence...".knowing that there will be a certain percentage of people who will abuse pot if it's legalized who will not abuse it if it isn't,"
I'm not sure your not stoned.
And I could also probably find instances of people abusing food are a danger to others. If I look hard enough. I don't care too.

 

[Madsol]

People don't abuse food just because its readily available, they have a predisposition for it. Same with alcohol and probably the same with pot.
Why do you find it interesting that I didn't answer? I've been completely honest with everything I posted as it pertains and regards me.

and quite frankly after reading your sentence...".knowing that there will be a certain percentage of people who will abuse pot if it's legalized who will not abuse it if it isn't,"
I'm not sure your not stoned.
And I could also probably find instances of people abusing food are a danger to others. If I look hard enough. I don't care too.

Oh c'mon BB, get serious. You're honestly suggesting that if pot is legalized, there won't be new users who abuse it? Of course there will be. Because it will be available to them when before it wasn't, again either because they were afraid of being arrested or simply because they're a conformist and obeyed the law. You have to acknowledge that reality. Then you have to ask, given that reality, is that a good thing.

 

[KnightSlayer]

People that abuse any drug are not a benefit to society, at least IMHO. So the bolded part meant we need to acknowledge that if pot is legalized all of a sudden we're going to have a certain percentage of people abusing the drug who wouldn't have abused it had it remained illegal and what impact that will have on society. There has to be some impact, I'm just not sure how extreme. I think it's a fair question to ask.

I would say the impact would be minimal as opposed to extreme. I also think that not arresting the millions of people who enjoy cannabis, without abusing it, while maintaining otherwise successful lives, far outweighs the hypothetical group of people who will suddenly abuse it when it becomes legal.

 

[Madsol]

I would say the impact would be minimal as opposed to extreme. I also think that not arresting the millions of people who enjoy cannabis, without abusing it, while maintaining otherwise successful lives, far outweighs the hypothetical group of people who will suddenly abuse it when it becomes legal.

Ok. I appreciate the answer. I don't know if I agree with you but I at least can appreciate your position.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Oh c'mon BB, get serious. You're honestly suggesting that if pot is legalized, there won't be new users who abuse it? Of course there will be. Because it will be available to them when before it wasn't, again either because they were afraid of being arrested or simply because they're a conformist and obeyed the law. You have to acknowledge that reality. Then you have to ask, given that reality, is that a good thing.

What exactly do you consider abusing pot and, what do you think the are negative consequences of the abuse? I could give you an exhaustive list of the negatives of alcohol abuse up to and including death. What is the worst thing that happens to someone who smokes too much pot?

 

[BBrown]

Oh c'mon BB, get serious. You're honestly suggesting that if pot is legalized, there won't be new users who abuse it? Of course there will be. Because it will be available to them when before it wasn't, again either because they were afraid of being arrested or simply because they're a conformist and obeyed the law. You have to acknowledge that reality. Then you have to ask, given that reality, is that a good thing.

Pretty sure I did acknowledge that when I said..."LOL, seriously? C'mon people can "abuse" anything."
So yes people will abuse pot just like they abuse Alcohol, food, soda...

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Oh c'mon BB, get serious. You're honestly suggesting that if pot is legalized, there won't be new users who abuse it? Of course there will be. Because it will be available to them when before it wasn't, again either because they were afraid of being arrested or simply because they're a conformist and obeyed the law. You have to acknowledge that reality. Then you have to ask, given that reality, is that a good thing.

Can you explain the abuse part of it? It sounds like you are really knowledgeable on the effects and how addictive it is. Will there be more pot OD's? I didn't realize how many adults were out there just waiting for it to become legal so they could become addicts....very thought provoking opinions you have.

 

[BBrown]

I would say the impact would be minimal as opposed to extreme. I also think that not arresting the millions of people who enjoy cannabis, without abusing it, while maintaining otherwise successful lives, far outweighs the hypothetical group of people who will suddenly abuse it when it becomes legal.

+100

 

[Madsol]

What exactly do you consider abusing pot and, what do you think the are negative consequences of the abuse? I could give you an exhaustive list of the negatives of alcohol abuse up to and including death. What is the worst thing that happens to someone who smokes too much pot?

Now this position I DON'T understand. I'm not in any way, shape or form suggesting that there aren't negative consequences to abusing alcohol. But why do we want to add to the mix the possibility of negative consequences of abusing pot? It's not like it's a choice between alcohol and pot. Alcohol is already legal. Now you're proposing to add pot.

And the negative consequences of abusing pot? How about someone abuses pot and then drives a school bus? Or works as an air traffic controller? Or as a pilot? Or as a brain surgeon? Or pretty much any job where you don't want the person being high (or drunk, of course).

 

[Madsol]

Can you explain the abuse part of it? It sounds like you are really knowledgeable on the effects and how addictive it is. Will there be more pot OD's? I didn't realize how many adults were out there just waiting for it to become legal so they could become addicts....very thought provoking opinions you have.

Bite me. Man are you a jerk. See ya.

 

[Madsol]

Yep, Pandora's box. Sorry I opened it. Carry on.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Bite me. Man are you a jerk. See ya.

Wow, I think my questions were more than fair. Maybe you should sip on a few cocktails since they are legal, take a breath and present a decent response to what abuse you are anticipating from this. Now this name calling, wow, you certainly seem to have some anger issues too I guess.

 

[BBrown]

Now this position I DON'T understand. I'm not in any way, shape or form suggesting that there aren't negative consequences to abusing alcohol. But why do we want to add to the mix the possibility of negative consequences of abusing pot? It's not like it's a choice between alcohol and pot. Alcohol is already legal. Now you're proposing to add pot.

And the negative consequences of abusing pot? How about someone abuses pot and then drives a school bus? Or works as an air traffic controller? Or as a pilot? Or as a brain surgeon? Or pretty much any job where you don't want the person being high (or drunk, of course).

I also don't want a brain surgeon (Bob if you will) cutting into my brain all hopped up on caffeine.
....again sorry Bob.

Or maybe the bus driver or pilot "abused" chocolate or dairy and now have to have an emergency bathroom break and blow through the stop sign or red light, and yes that actually happened in Baltimore a couple weeks ago.

I completely understand what your saying and I agree with a lot of it but you can't legislate being
"smart" or "safe" although the govt. tries.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Now this position I DON'T understand. I'm not in any way, shape or form suggesting that there aren't negative consequences to abusing alcohol. But why do we want to add to the mix the possibility of negative consequences of abusing pot? It's not like it's a choice between alcohol and pot. Alcohol is already legal. Now you're proposing to add pot.

And the negative consequences of abusing pot? How about someone abuses pot and then drives a school bus? Or works as an air traffic controller? Or as a pilot? Or as a brain surgeon? Or pretty much any job where you don't want the person being high (or drunk, of course).

I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you're saying. Do you really believe their are people in those sorts of positions, who don't currently smoke pot, who are waiting for it to become legal so they can then abuse it in the worst sort of way? If you worry about something so improbable, it would seem to me that you'd spend most of your life worrying. Do you worry about people taking cold medicine and operating heavy machinery? Those people are more impaired than someone who smokes pot.

Just a few points.

You can't overdose on pot.
Pot isn't addictive.
Impairment of abilities is minimal.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/marijuana-doesnt-pose-significant-risk-in-car-crashes-nhtsa-says

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I also don't want a brain surgeon (Bob if you will) cutting into my brain all hopped up on caffeine.
....again sorry Bob.

Or maybe the bus driver or pilot "abused" chocolate or dairy and now have to have an emergency bathroom break and blow through the stop sign or red light, and yes that actually happened in Baltimore a couple weeks ago.

I completely understand what your saying and I agree with a lot of it but you can't legislate being
"smart" or "safe" although the govt. tries.

Sadly some folks have the reefer madness form the 30's and 40's as their source of information on the situation. Sadly those things happen already occur today with LEGAL pills and LEGAL alcohol. People abuse them daily and the effects are devastating. Big Pharma is making a ton of money off of this situation as well. You're dead on people can abuse anything and plenty of things are already legal.

 

[BBrown]

Sadly some folks have the reefer madness form the 30's and 40's as their source of information on the situation. Sadly those things happen already occur today with LEGAL pills and LEGAL alcohol. People abuse them daily and the effects are devastating. Big Pharma is making a ton of money off of this situation as well. You're dead on people can abuse anything and plenty of things are already legal.

Agree. And Knightslayer made and excellent point about cold medicine. I'll add one more antihistamines or allergy meds. Those things put me to sleep faster than anything I've ever smoked.

 

[jim cummings]

 

[Delco Lion]

Oh gees, I see this thread went to pot.....

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Yeah, the whole reason people started smoking that crap, instead of cannabis, was to avoid a positive drug test.

Yes. Many people are unemployed because they have a criminal record and, many people with criminal records are currently on probation or parole, which requires you to pass drug tests.

You are sooooooo oversimplifying this thing. You cannot get a job in most industrial trades, crafts or other skilled labor (including driving a truck or a forklift) unless you pass a drug test and subject yourself to testing. This is because the employers can not afford their insurance premiums without a testing policy in place.

Most people who cannot get a job cannot do so because they cannot stay off the weed, not because they have a possession conviction in their past. I spend a lot of time in chemical, steel, power and gas processing plants and I can’t get on site unless I agree to the client’s drug screening policy. These policies are all very similar (because the insurance companies all demand it) and the companies are not interested in your prior possessions, they just want you clean when you are working there.

For permanent employees, the cleanliness requirement is permanent. Legalizing pot is not going to change the insurer’s stance on having dopeheads run industrial equipment.

 

[Obliviax]

These are the same people who want the freedom of choice asking for govt programs when they suffer the consequences of those choices

 

[jim cummings]

Oh gees, I see this thread went to pot.....

 

[heckmans]

Yep - I know medical MJ oil/vape eligibles that simply buy the illegal stuff because it's cheaper. Ironically smuggled from CO.

Of course. Think about it. You can grow and manage it legally in CO without risk. The only risk occurs when divert supply away from legal dispensaries and transport it across state lines. Much less risky than other supply sources.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Oh gees, I see this thread went to pot.....

I can’t believe they won’t let me weld on the aircraft carrier down at the shipyard just because I can’t pass my piss test! Pot is not addictive but I can’t hold down a job that pays $100k per year because I can’t stop smoking long enough to pass a simple piss test.

 

[BBrown]

I can’t believe they won’t let me weld on the aircraft carrier down at the shipyard just because I can’t pass my piss test! Pot is not addictive but I can’t hold down a job that pays $100k per year because I can’t stop smoking long enough to pass a simple piss test.

Thank God, though, I can still drink my bottle of Jack Daniels and go weld and still pass a piss test.

 

[heckmans]

What exactly do you consider abusing pot and, what do you think the are negative consequences of the abuse? I could give you an exhaustive list of the negatives of alcohol abuse up to and including death. What is the worst thing that happens to someone who smokes too much pot?

For starters, let me say that I don't care what people do in their basements when it doesn't affect other people. That includes any banned substance that someone is stupid enough to ingest. The problem is that people don't stay in their basement and inevitably, there are impacts on others and society at large that we must all pay for. Heroine addicts steal to buy more heroine, etc

So, let's discuss alcohol vs marijuana.
- Alcohol is not a hallucinogen. Marijuana is.
- I have personally witnessed the physical, mental, end emotional transformation of people smoking too much pot. Anyone that says it's harmless is either a liar or ignorant.
- When people become addicts and commit crimes, there is a lobby that says "we" should focus on treatment and not incarceration. Legalizing Marijuana WILL lead to more use, more abusers and higher costs to society....and no, the tax from selling pot will not cover it. Local govts have already spent that money on other BS.
- Whatever you opinion of alcohol vs marijuana and whether marijuana should be legal, let's not pretend it has less societal impact than alcohol.

IMHO, there are medicinal properties to cannabis, just as there are to opium.
What blows my mind is that we legalize marijuana, give people a card and let them buy a largely unregulated product.
While I'm not fan of burdensome govt regulation, I do believe that cannabis should be treated as a controlled substance and there should be a medical grade product that is QC'd delivered in a manner that would limit/negate non-medical use.

 

[BBrown]

For starters, let me say that I don't care what people do in their basements when it doesn't affect other people. That includes any banned substance that someone is stupid enough to ingest. The problem is that people don't stay in their basement and inevitably, there are impacts on others and society at large that we must all pay for. Heroine addicts steal to buy more heroine, etc

So, let's discuss alcohol vs marijuana.
- Alcohol is not a hallucinogen. Marijuana is.
- I have personally witnessed the physical, mental, end emotional transformation of people smoking too much pot. Anyone that says it's harmless is either a liar or ignorant.
- When people become addicts and commit crimes, there is a lobby that says "we" should focus on treatment and not incarceration. Legalizing Marijuana WILL lead to more use, more abusers and higher costs to society....and no, the tax from selling pot will not cover it. Local govts have already spent that money on other BS.
- Whatever you opinion of alcohol vs marijuana and whether marijuana should be legal, let's not pretend it has less societal impact than alcohol.

IMHO, there are medicinal properties to cannabis, just as there are to opium.
What blows my mind is that we legalize marijuana, give people a card and let them buy a largely unregulated product.
While I'm not fan of burdensome govt regulation, I do believe that cannabis should be treated as a controlled substance and there should be a medical grade product that is QC'd delivered in a manner that would limit/negate non-medical use.

I already have so many issues with your first bullet point I won't even bother reading any further.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Thank God, though, I can still drink my bottle of Jack Daniels and go weld and still pass a piss test.

Oversimplify, much? How well do you walk after drinking a bottle of Jack? Do you think nobody would smell the booze on your breath? If you so much as get a blister from a hot spark and need an ointment for relief, they are drawing blood, having you piss in a bottle and, sometimes, taking hair samples.

I don’t go onto worksites with alcohol in my body either because there is an acute awareness for “impaired”behavior whether it be OTC medicines, booze or weed. This is a simple workplace fact.

You are conflating many issues here. I am merely pointing out the reality of today’s industrial workplace. Legalizing weed will not get rid of the requirement that you don’t come to work “impaired”. It’s unfortunate that weed stays in your system so long and can be detected by a simple, inexpensive piss test.

Back when the tests were expensive and could only detect usage from a few days prior, I wouldn’t hesitate to get baked on the occasional weekend. Since I usually come on site to resolve large problems and, oftentimes for no charge, I was rarely selected for random testing. Today, the risk is too high as the tests are inexpensive and they don’t always go with a urine test. They go for the hair test and know a lot more about your consumption than just weed!

But, you just go on believing that all of these people smoking dope in the middle of the day in public spaces and getting so baked that they cannot speak clearly are victims and are being oppressed.

 

[BBrown]

Oversimplify, much? How well do you walk after drinking a bottle of Jack? Do you think nobody would smell the booze on your breath? If you so much as get a blister from a hot spark and need an ointment for relief, they are drawing blood, having you piss in a bottle and, sometimes, taking hair samples.

I don’t go onto worksites with alcohol in my body either because there is an acute awareness for “impaired”behavior whether it be OTC medicines, booze or weed. This is a simple workplace fact.

You are conflating many issues here. I am merely pointing out the reality of today’s industrial workplace. Legalizing weed will not get rid of the requirement that you don’t come to work “impaired”. It’s unfortunate that weed stays in your system so long and can be detected by a simple, inexpensive piss test.

Back when the tests were expensive and could only detect usage from a few days prior, I wouldn’t hesitate to get baked on the occasional weekend. Since I usually come on site to resolve large problems and, oftentimes for no charge, I was rarely selected for random testing. Today, the risk is too high as the tests are inexpensive and they don’t always go with a urine test. They go for the hair test and know a lot more about your consumption than just weed!

But, you just go on believing that all of these people smoking dope in the middle of the day in public spaces and getting so baked that they cannot speak clearly are victims and are being oppressed.

I don't drink Jack. But I didn't oversimplify anymore than you did.
You know the whole "oh my god I can't stop smoking weed, I'm addicted" rant.

and where in the hell did I say any or even intimate any of this..."But, you just go on believing that all of these people smoking dope in the middle of the day in public spaces and getting so baked that they cannot speak clearly are victims and are being oppressed"

 

[AWS1022]

More bullshit.

Wrong.