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5 NCAA's

PSUranger

PSUranger

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Mar 11, 2014
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I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but am wondering...

With all the red shirts, and Olympic years, and the 5 year eligibility rules, and the NCAA seemingly giving 6th year to anyone that asks; Is it possible someone could figure out a way to manipulate the system and win 5 NCAA championships?
 
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PSUranger said:
I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but am wondering...

With all the red shirts, and Olympic years, and the 5 year eligibility rules, and the NCAA seemingly giving 6th year to anyone that asks; Is it possible someone could figure out a way to manipulate the system and win 5 NCAA championships?
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NO. No matter when you start college, interrupt it with a redshirt of some type, or whether you are granted a sixth year, you will ALWAYS have just four years of competition eligibility.
 
Pennstate1985 said:
NO. No matter when you start college, interrupt it with a redshirt of some type, or whether you are granted a sixth year, you will ALWAYS have just four years of competition eligibility.
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Of course, this is the NCAA you are talking about. I would never say never, unless you are talking about them screwing up! There is no consistency or transparency so NOTHING would surprise me.
 
PSUer1989 said:
Of course, this is the NCAA you are talking about. I would never say never, unless you are talking about them screwing up! There is no consistency or transparency so NOTHING would surprise me.
Click to expand...
I hate the NCAA and the constant double standard that seems to be the standard. However, there's a point to where the hate goes over the top of the spillway, and this is one such issue. You only get four years of competition, and that is an across-the-board rule known by all. So I will say never until they change the rule.
 
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Gravina from Rutgers has the opportunity to wrestle in five B1G seasons but not 5 Nationals. He's the closest that I know of to getting five seasons of competition.
 
SWPA said:
Haselrig is of course the exception.
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Haselrig is the exception to many rules. What a freak of nature he was.

Can you imagine the level of recruitment by D1 schools today if he was currently at Pitt-Johnstown? tOSU would be all over him to replace Snyder. I'm not so sure he couldn't have beaten Snyder in his own right.
 
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SWPA said:
Haselrig is of course the exception.
Click to expand...
Did not wrestle more than 4 years. That rules been solid forever, in all sports. The Haselrig "exception" is that he wrestled BOTH D1 and D2 for 3 consecutive years, winning 6 titles. Can't happen today.

Absolutely a great wrestler, winning his 6 NCAA titles, a wrestling feat that will never be matched.
 
RoarLions1 said:
Did not wrestle more than 4 years. That rules been solid forever, in all sports. The Haselrig "exception" is that he wrestled BOTH D1 and D2 for 3 consecutive years, winning 6 titles. Can't happen today.

Absolutely a great wrestler, winning his 6 NCAA titles, a wrestling feat that will never be matched.
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My response was to the original post of 5 NCAA's. Not to wrestling more than 4 postseasons. Thanks for clarifying.
 
SWPA said:
My response was to the original post of 5 NCAA's. Not to wrestling more than 4 postseasons. Thanks for clarifying.
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The short Haselrig discussion was worth it...unique situation for sure, so thanks for bringing it up.

The OP seemed to be asking if a wrestler could go 5 consecutive years...
 
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At UNI it's always said that had it not been for Heselrig, Joel Greenlee would have been a national champion at UNI.
 
Ban Basketball said:
At UNI it's always said that had it not been for Heselrig, Joel Greenlee would have been a national champion at UNI.
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I remember the District 6 tournament the one year where at heavyweight, a senior that was 0-0 on the season was entered to wrestle. Never had wrestled a high school match before because his school didn't have a team. Ended the tournament season 10-0 with a state title. Those were the only bouts he ever wrestled in high school. That was my introduction to Carlton Haselrig via WBPZ radio out of Lock Haven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig

Haselrig won PIAA Pennsylvania state high school championship in 1984 despite not wrestling during the regular season due to Johnstown High's lack of a wrestling team.[2]

Haselrig won a junior world freestyle title in 1986, and a world junior Greco-Roman title in 1985 while competing for the United States.

While in college Haselrig would defeat future NCAA and Olympic champion Kurt Angle.[3] In 2009, he was inducted into Pitt–Johnstown's Athletics Hall of Fame.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
I remember the District 6 tournament the one year where at heavyweight, a senior that was 0-0 on the season was entered to wrestle. Never had wrestled a high school match before because his school didn't have a team. Ended the tournament season 10-0 with a state title. Those were the only bouts he ever wrestled in high school. That was my introduction to Carlton Haselrig via WBPZ radio out of Lock Haven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig

Haselrig won PIAA Pennsylvania state high school championship in 1984 despite not wrestling during the regular season due to Johnstown High's lack of a wrestling team.[2]

Haselrig won a junior world freestyle title in 1986, and a world junior Greco-Roman title in 1985 while competing for the United States.

While in college Haselrig would defeat future NCAA and Olympic champion Kurt Angle.[3] In 2009, he was inducted into Pitt–Johnstown's Athletics Hall of Fame.
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Wow, I'm not sure that I ever heard that. That has to take some freakish athletic abilities. However, freakish strength can compensate for a lot of lack in ability as well. Not sure which was which in his case.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
I remember the District 6 tournament the one year where at heavyweight, a senior that was 0-0 on the season was entered to wrestle. Never had wrestled a high school match before because his school didn't have a team. Ended the tournament season 10-0 with a state title. Those were the only bouts he ever wrestled in high school. That was my introduction to Carlton Haselrig via WBPZ radio out of Lock Haven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig

Haselrig won PIAA Pennsylvania state high school championship in 1984 despite not wrestling during the regular season due to Johnstown High's lack of a wrestling team.[2]

Haselrig won a junior world freestyle title in 1986, and a world junior Greco-Roman title in 1985 while competing for the United States.

While in college Haselrig would defeat future NCAA and Olympic champion Kurt Angle.[3] In 2009, he was inducted into Pitt–Johnstown's Athletics Hall of Fame.
Click to expand...
wbpz? was probably harris(if you like good sports, be one) lipez at the mike.
Pennstate1985 said:
I remember the District 6 tournament the one year where at heavyweight, a senior that was 0-0 on the season was entered to wrestle. Never had wrestled a high school match before because his school didn't have a team. Ended the tournament season 10-0 with a state title. Those were the only bouts he ever wrestled in high school. That was my introduction to Carlton Haselrig via WBPZ radio out of Lock Haven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig

Haselrig won PIAA Pennsylvania state high school championship in 1984 despite not wrestling during the regular season due to Johnstown High's lack of a wrestling team.[2]

Haselrig won a junior world freestyle title in 1986, and a world junior Greco-Roman title in 1985 while competing for the United States.

While in college Haselrig would defeat future NCAA and Olympic champion Kurt Angle.[3] In 2009, he was inducted into Pitt–Johnstown's Athletics Hall of Fame.
Click to expand...
wbpz? that was probably harris(if you like good sports, be one) lipez at the mike.
 
If a wrestler competes for part of year and is then granted a medical redshirt do the matches during the redshirt year count on his official record? He/She might not be able to win 5 titles, but could pile up some additional decisions to move up some career lists. .
 
Comfortably dumb said:
If a wrestler competes for part of year and is then granted a medical redshirt do the matches during the redshirt year count on his official record? He/She might not be able to win 5 titles, but could pile up some additional decisions to move up some career lists. .
Click to expand...

No, those matches do not count on their official record. Kind of weird as those matches DO count on the official record of their opponents if they were not redshirting.
 
lockhavenlion3 said:
wbpz? was probably harris(if you like good sports, be one) lipez at the mike.

wbpz? that was probably harris(if you like good sports, be one) lipez at the mike.
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Harris and his son John Lopez (Lipez?) I think, or vice versa. 1230am I believe, and they were religious about carrying wrestling (both high school and college). They would carry every second of every tournament. I think Tom Elling would guest occasionally, as he was originally Lock Haven's high school coach. Thems were the days. <sigh>
 
NoVa Lion said:
No, those matches do not count on their official record. Kind of weird as those matches DO count on the official record of their opponents if they were not redshirting.
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Yeah, never understood the reasoning of that. If something does not exist for one person, how can it exist for another. Had an ex-wife who could pull that off, but don't normally see it. Maybe Roar has the answer for this.
 
Ban Basketball said:
Wow, I'm not sure that I ever heard that. That has to take some freakish athletic abilities. However, freakish strength can compensate for a lot of lack in ability as well. Not sure which was which in his case.
Click to expand...
To me, Carlton was Ed Ruth times two. Unbelievable athletic ability, and didn't necessarily need the "right room" to excel. He probably could have won nationals coming in from off his couch.
 
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More on Carlton Haselrig. 143-2-1 lifetime record, and his streak of 122 consecutive wins has only been broken by a Cael Sanderson. Surprised he is never mentioned as an all-time great even though he is on the 75th NCAA anniversary team. He did everything big. Nine kids. Yikes!!!

http://pittjohnstownathletics.com/hof.aspx?hof=7

Carlton Haselrig, a Johnstown, Pa. native, is the most decorated athlete in Pitt-Johnstown history. Mr. Haselrig won six heavyweight NCAA National Wrestling championships—three at the Division I level and three at the Division II level. Mr. Haselrig holds five Pitt-Johnstown all-time wrestling records, as well as an overall career record of 143-2-1, which equates to a .979 winning percentage. Mr. Haselrig never lost a match in the Division I National Tournament (15-0 record and three titles), and he never lost or tied a Division II opponent. His six titles were unprecedented and will remain so because the NCAA no longer allows wrestlers to compete in both division tournaments. Also, during his Pitt-Johnstown tenure, Mr. Haselrig grappled his way to an NCAA record of 122 consecutive matches without suffering a loss.
In 2005, Mr. Haselrig was named to the NCAA 75th Anniversary Wrestling Team, which included other notable heavyweights, such as NCAA and Olympic champion Kurt Angle, who Mr. Haselrig had defeated during his college wrestling career.
While in high school, however, Mr. Haselrig was forced to wrestle freestyle during the summer because a high school wrestling program was not available to him. But, after taking an interest in Mr. Haselrig’s career, local individuals convinced the Greater Johnstown School board to allow Mr. Haselrig to represent Johnstown High as an independent “one-man team” as a senior. He posted a 10-0 record and won the Pennsylvania AAA State Heavyweight Title.
In 1989, Mr. Haselrig was a 12th-round draft pick by the Pittsburgh Steelers, and he went on to be selected as a Pro Bowl offensive lineman without ever having played college football. Mr. Haselrig currently is training and managing mixed martial arts fighters and wrestlers at Cold Steel MMA & Wrestling in Johnstown. He also is involved with youth wrestling and football in the greater Johnstown area.
“I’m very pleased and honored to be included as one of the former student-athletes who will be recognized for posterity and very thankful, especially to Coach [Pecora], and all who’ve helped me achieve great things in sports, and, more importantly, assisted me with preparing for life.”
Mr. Haselrig and his wife Michelle reside in Johnstown. The Haselrigs have nine children: Cameron (18), Jordan (18), Demetrius (17), Jade (16), William (15), Cortez (11), Cantara (10), Carlton, Jr. (8) and Carlee (6).
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
I hate the NCAA and the constant double standard that seems to be the standard. However, there's a point to where the hate goes over the top of the spillway, and this is one such issue. You only get four years of competition, and that is an across-the-board rule known by all. So I will say never until they change the rule.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should have used an emoji... :oops:
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
I remember the District 6 tournament the one year where at heavyweight, a senior that was 0-0 on the season was entered to wrestle. Never had wrestled a high school match before because his school didn't have a team. Ended the tournament season 10-0 with a state title. Those were the only bouts he ever wrestled in high school. That was my introduction to Carlton Haselrig via WBPZ radio out of Lock Haven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig

Haselrig won PIAA Pennsylvania state high school championship in 1984 despite not wrestling during the regular season due to Johnstown High's lack of a wrestling team.[2]

Haselrig won a junior world freestyle title in 1986, and a world junior Greco-Roman title in 1985 while competing for the United States.

While in college Haselrig would defeat future NCAA and Olympic champion Kurt Angle.[3] In 2009, he was inducted into Pitt–Johnstown's Athletics Hall of Fame.
Click to expand...
I believe Haserig won his championship representing Johnstown Vo-Tech, rather than Greater Johnstown. It was Johnstown Vo Tech that didn't have a program, I think.

Edit: Nope. I thought wrong. It was indeed Greater Johnstown.
1984
Class AAA Hersheypark
Arena,
Hershey, Pa. 1984
Class AA Hersheypark
Arena,
Hershey, Pa.
Wt. Name School Dist. Wt. Name School Dist.
98 Jack Cuvo Easton Area 11 98 Dan Ferringer Marion Center 6
105 Tony Reed Shikellamy 4 105 Jim Martin Danville 4
112 Doug Stanford Meadville 10 112 Troy Handlovic Wilson Boro 11
119 Shay French Clearfield 9 119 Matt Gerhard Catasauqua 11
126 Ed Curran Neshaminy 1 126 Mike Cole Montrose 12
132 Patsy Vulcano Chartiers-Houston 7 132 Don Horning Cameron County 9
138 Dave Morgan West Chester East 1 138 Joe Cesari North Schuylkill 11
145 Sean Finkbeiner Northampton 11 145 Ed Burkhart Corry 10
155 Rob Koll State College 6 155 Bill Freeman Southern Columbia 4
167 Mark Sidorick Philipsburg-osceola 6 167 Paul Green Pottstown 1
185 Andy Voit Allentown Dieruff 11 185 Dave Parrish Susquenita 3
Hwt. Carlton Haselrig Greater Johnstown 6 Hwt. Tony Koontz Delone Catholic 3
Team Champion Shikellamy 4 Team Champion Danville 1


Woah, i just noticed team champs SHIKELLAMY IN AAA and DANVILLE in AA...TWO NON CATHOLIC, NON CHARTER, NON RECRUITING, NO FEEDER SCHOOL, ALL HOME GROWN TEAMS.

My how the times have changed.
 
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Notsofastmyfriend21 said:
I believe Haserig won his championship representing Johnstown Vo-Tech, rather than Greater Johnstown. It was Johnstown Vo Tech that didn't have a program, I think.

Edit: Nope. I thought wrong. It was indeed Greater Johnstown.
1984
Class AAA Hersheypark
Arena,
Hershey, Pa. 1984
Class AA Hersheypark
Arena,
Hershey, Pa.
Wt. Name School Dist. Wt. Name School Dist.
98 Jack Cuvo Easton Area 11 98 Dan Ferringer Marion Center 6
105 Tony Reed Shikellamy 4 105 Jim Martin Danville 4
112 Doug Stanford Meadville 10 112 Troy Handlovic Wilson Boro 11
119 Shay French Clearfield 9 119 Matt Gerhard Catasauqua 11
126 Ed Curran Neshaminy 1 126 Mike Cole Montrose 12
132 Patsy Vulcano Chartiers-Houston 7 132 Don Horning Cameron County 9
138 Dave Morgan West Chester East 1 138 Joe Cesari North Schuylkill 11
145 Sean Finkbeiner Northampton 11 145 Ed Burkhart Corry 10
155 Rob Koll State College 6 155 Bill Freeman Southern Columbia 4
167 Mark Sidorick Philipsburg-osceola 6 167 Paul Green Pottstown 1
185 Andy Voit Allentown Dieruff 11 185 Dave Parrish Susquenita 3
Hwt. Carlton Haselrig Greater Johnstown 6 Hwt. Tony Koontz Delone Catholic 3
Team Champion Shikellamy 4 Team Champion Danville 1


Woah, i just noticed team champs SHIKELLAMY IN AAA and DANVILLE in AA...TWO NON CATHOLIC, NON CHARTER, NON RECRUITING, NO FEEDER SCHOOL, ALL HOME GROWN TEAMS.

My how the times have changed.
Click to expand...
Some great names on those two lists
 
Pennstate1985 said:
Harris and his son John Lopez (Lipez?) I think, or vice versa. 1230am I believe, and they were religious about carrying wrestling (both high school and college). They would carry every second of every tournament. I think Tom Elling would guest occasionally, as he was originally Lock Haven's high school coach. Thems were the days. <sigh>
Click to expand...
agree. harris did our fb games when i was in hs. went to college with tom elling. pretty good wrestler at lhsc, a great guy and a great friend of wrestling.
 
Pennstate1985 said:
Some great names on those two lists
Click to expand...

I think the Danville is a misprint: I think both Shik and Danville were D4 at the time, for some reason they had Danville as D1. I got those off the D6 website which everyone should stop in and check out because it is very in-depth with history and info for not just D6 but all of the PIAA.
 
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Notsofastmyfriend21 said:
I think the Danville is a misprint: I think both Shik and Danville were D4 at the time, for some reason they had Danville as D1. I got those off the D6 website which everyone should stop in and check out because it is very in-depth with history and info for not just D6 but all of the PIAA.
Click to expand...
The list was AAA then AA champs. Shik won AAA title, Danville AA title.
 
OT a bit but due to a rule change a player played in 5 bowl games. Gator, Freedom, Peach and 2 Rose Bowls.
 
The bottom line of that listing said Shik 4, Danville 1. That was a typo. The listing had it right earlier when it listed Jim Martin, Danville 4.
 
psualt said:
I was just about to say the same. Some great wrestlers for sure. I always thought Haselrig trained with the heavyweight from Westmont who I remembered as being one of the best in AA.
Click to expand...

He did indeed train with the Westmont wrestling team and represented Johnstown High at the state tournament....which he won. Not certain what happened his freshman year at UPJ but starting in his Sophomore year....he won both Division II National Champ 3X and then qualified for the Division I National championship ( the custom at the time for Div. II champs....and STILL SHOULD BE )......which he also won 3X. Pro Bowl Offensive Lineman for the Steelers. Took a motorcycle ride with his helmet backwards running from the Police......with some substances in his system....took a life detour and came back to fight MMA and do good things back in his home area. He is fondly remembered by both his UPJ friends as well as his Steeler associates. Interesting ..positive ending story.......exceptional talent. Go Haslerig
 
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