Why couldn’t I have been a victim when I was in high school?
Self hating and future latte drinking are not turnons, Bob!
28 year old English teacher, 8 months, pregnant, caught having relations with 15 year old...
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Self hating and future latte drinking are not turnons, Bob!
Honestly what it sounds like this lady did is not different than what Sandusky, albeit with one known victim. An adult with an inappropriate sexual relationship with an underage child.
I realize this is an uncomfortable topic to discuss, but since we are already joking about "hot for teacher", I have a question for the men on the board: think back to your younger self at 17 (for personal reference I was 17 when I started as a freshman at University Park). Did you understand the pros and cons of sex? Were you already sexually active? If you were offered sex by a very attractive woman who was 10 years older than you, would you have at least seriously considered it? (Let's assume for the sake my hypothetical that this isn't a person who has power over you, like a teacher; the power dynamic introduces a different set of constraints). What about if a not attractive 50 year old woman offered you sex? You'd probably turn that down, right?
If there are women reading this thread, I'd love their perspective on this as the genders can (often do) have different views on sex at that age.
In other words, did you feel, at 17, that you could make informed decisions about who to have or not have sex with? If the answer is "yes", does that suggest that at least some of our societal/legal definitions of CSA might be wrong?
If there are women reading this thread, I'd love their perspective on this as the genders can (often do) have different views on sex at that age.
In other words, did you feel, at 17, that you could make informed decisions about who to have or not have sex with? If the answer is "yes", does that suggest that at least some of our societal/legal definitions of CSA might be wrong?
I did not have sex at that age, but I certainly had opportunity, so yes, I think a 17 year old can make an informed decision. I knew what I was or wasn't doing.
That is an interesting question.
Keep I mind that this case involves a middle school boy though, not a 17-year old.
some great questions...but I don't think the issue is with the teen age boy or girl, it is on the adult. There is a huge difference between 15~18 and being 23. Especially if you are a teacher. No matter if the student wants sex, the teacher is responsible. Honestly, I don't even know how a teacher lets him/herself get into that situation. At the same time, if a decent looking gal wants to get laid they can go to any club at just about anytime and name the dude.
perhaps that is not your point.
I was dating a lot but not sexually active at that time. My Catholic guilt and love for my parents caused me keep it in my pants.
to your last point, regarding laws, it is legal for a 25 year old to have sex with a 17 year old in most states...but not if the 25 year old is a teacher or other similar position (Dr., Counselor, Layer) but these are pretty much state laws. the problem with laws, if they have to be one size fits all. There are a lot of very mature teenagers, and very immature teenagers. Plus, add in booze, weed and drugs and you've got quite a mishmash of laws.
How does a teacher let him/herself get into these situations? Because they enjoy the power, and they enjoy the young flesh, whether they initiate it or the teenager does. The teachers are both powerful and weak.
right. agree.
Over the years, I've always been fascinated with the struggle between emotion and logic. it is basic Freud: Id, Ego and Super Ego. The bottom line is that a strong mind controls emotional impulses. A person with anger problems is probably a person that just isn't very "smart". So, I liken these teachers, as you describe them, as just being dumb. Their logic cannot overcome their basic impulses.
I am just glad that these issues are now taken more seriously. I can think of at least 3 incidents from when I was in school (35-40 years ago) where teachers were caught having sex with a student and either nothing happened or in one case the teacher was suspended for two years. These were all heterosexual encounters.
But catch a kid with an ounce of weed and they threatened to lock him up for life.
The priorities were so skewed back then.
But catch a kid with an ounce of weed and they threatened to lock him up for life.
The priorities were so skewed back then.
Here is what I think, with absolutely no proof but with the thought of a doctoral disortation on the subject. I think people are naturally drawn to sex of a certain type. Gay, straight, perhaps certain ages. I think these women (as well as Sandusky and other pedophiles) are naturally attracted to whatever it is they have sex with. It doesn’t make it acceptable, but I am of the belief that it is a natural tendency.
I am not sure if there are more incidents or if they are just now being reported. I feel like social media is a big part of the exposure.
on why, I have no idea. I get guys, but gals?
I recall some time I spent in Singapore I found their attitude for sex to be fascinating. Prostitution was 100% legal but having a playboy or penthouse would get you some number of lashes. In fact, the group I was with tried to hire a gal to strip and when she found out what they wanted, she was completely offended. Bottom line is that voyerism was illegal, sex was not. I never did the research, but was told that they have almost zero violent crime (murder, rape, etc.). Corporal punishment may have something to do with it, but most there feel that it is because that the titalation of men and outlet for pure sex is a key factor.
Agreed, but the law, as I understand it, means that even if he was 17, this would have been statutory rape just due to his age and their age difference. Some of other teacher/student examples posted above were, I believe older than 15, but still minors.
Also, I was a sophomore in HS at 15. I don't think that's middle school for most, but the age is the key item.
Certainly the teacher-student aspect of this is wrong (which I said in my original post). I was merely commenting as to the age issue in general.
I pretty much agree. Although, when my wife and I were dating we went to see a one-man show named "defending the caveman". It was awesome. So we were talking about the different between men and woman. We were at a club/restaurant. At one point, she said "here's the difference; look around. see all of these men? If I wanted, I could be in bed with any one of them in as long as it took us to find the bed. Every. Single. One." For me, it was probably like, maybe five gals...and after several dates. So, it seems like it may be that sex is like New Yorkers going to the statue of liberty (they never do because, they can see it anytime they want). I also think of Bett Midler who once said "men give love to get sex while women give sex to get love" (paraphrased).
This is an interesting perspective, and while I think there is some truth there, I don't think that it is universally true (some women are attractive enough to get any straight guy (including married/taken ones) at the drop of a hat, but certainly all are not. Similarly, there are some guys with an amazing mix of looks and charm that can have almost any woman they want without having to jump through any dating hoops.
I think an underlying factor here that explains at lot of this is proximity. We (as a species) are either attracted to those we spend the most time around or are too lazy to seek out mates that we don't interact with frequently (maybe there is some interesting anthropological reason for this, e.g. "Cave man less likely to get eaten by sabretooth if dating within own cave", but I'm not that kind of scientist)
This explains:
1) Work place affairs (and harassment)
2) Affairs with the nanny
3) Inappropriate relationships between teachers and students
Interesting observations on Singapore. I travel there quite a bit. All porn is illegal and they block many internet sites.
I was working with a Singaporean woman who was quite attractive who once told me that Singaporeans do not have the inhibitions about extramarital sex that we do in America. This was after I met her husband and two kids. I think she accepted my rather Puritan views on the subject. Maybe this goes along with your observations.
A lot of interesting and thought provoking posts in this thread. Well done.
I am still confounded by the outrage of the Sandusky case (which were all intimate I teased relationships to some degree), the lesser amount of rage at Nasser (which was much more of the creeper, opportunistic though intersex relationships), and the laughing off of women having sex with middle school boys.
I am still confounded by the outrage of the Sandusky case (which were all intimate I teased relationships to some degree), the lesser amount of rage at Nasser (which was much more of the creeper, opportunistic though intersex relationships), and the laughing off of women having sex with middle school boys.
At age 17? By a hot 27 year-old woman? LOL. What do you think?
Not sure if serious.
I was serious, but you have illustrated my point. Assuming this woman wasn't your teacher (or pastor or boss), you'd be dancing for joy, not pressing charges.
At age 17? By a hot 27 year-old woman? LOL. What do you think?
Not sure if serious.
I probably would have just started giggling assuming she was joking and gone back to my Atari 5200.
Which illustrates another very good point which is that different people maturing (sexually and otherwise) at different ages. I've know 25 year olds that really shouldn't have been sexually active because they weren't acting responsibly AT ALL, but I'm sure there are high school students who are very mature WRT sexual relationships (with their peers).
Technology. If you went and looked I'd bet the majority of these situations started on some form of social media where it doesn't take as much courage to start a conversation and move it in that direction. A student may not have the guts to flirt with his teacher in class but the bar is a lot lower online because of the detachment.
Since teachers are considered and viewed as surrogate parents to students while in school, when intimacy occurs it becomes a criminal act regardless of gender or the age of the student. I do not believe that this young lady understands the consequences of being on a National Sex Offender Registry. All perspective employers will undoubtedly run a background check severely limiting career options. Her husband will most likely divorce her and get custody of the child.
We had a similar incident when I was in HS with a male teacher and a female student. The teacher was arrested, his wife divorced him and if my memory serves me right an attempt was made to take his state pension away from him. This misguided decision that lasted all of 15 minutes ruined his life. This is the sobering reality to most of these situations.
We had a similar incident when I was in HS with a male teacher and a female student. The teacher was arrested, his wife divorced him and if my memory serves me right an attempt was made to take his state pension away from him. This misguided decision that lasted all of 15 minutes ruined his life. This is the sobering reality to most of these situations.
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She probably fully understands it. But one thing I have learned in 45 years of life is that sex often trumps all reasoning.
I'm sure she will look very attractive in an prison-orange jump suit and heels in Cell-Block "C".
Jealousy, insecurity and competition. Most of these female teachers are younger and fairly attractive. They could easily go out to a bar and pick out just about any guy to go home with. Instead they choose to hook up with a student. I think they see the attention that high school girls get from the boys and get jealous. Their insecurity makes them wonder if they are still as attractive to high school boys as the used to be a few short years ago. The natural drive to compete and secure a desirable mate kicks in and logic and reasoning go out the window.
Or maybe they just want a young dude with a nearly non existent refractory period that they can train to do what they want.
This is a dangerous notion that I've always been very uncomfortable with, as it opens the door to other forms of abuse as well. Mentors, yes, but teachers shouldn't be encouraged to be surrogate parents.
You were on a latte run and missed it.Where was this advice when I was growing up?
I've heard it said (heterosexually speaking) that a woman can have sex anytime she wants to. A man can have sex only when a woman will let him.
I think it very much depends on age. The law did not want to distinguish a difference between a minor and a person of legal age. In other words you serve as a "surrogate parent" to a minor but a mentor to an individual who is 17 or 18 years old. That would provide a legal opening for a teacher to have an affair with an 18 year old high school student. If you research laws pertaining to this subject you will see "surrogate parent" used in some very high profile cases and sited in laws.
And also dumb!
If you ever worked with teenagers, say 14 to 18 years of age, then you should know that the chance of getting away with that type of relationship without them telling someone is extremely, extremely slim. It will always eventually get out.
Straight Women and gay dudes appear to have it made vis-à-vis no strings attached, on demand (almost) sex. No woman to say “no”.
I remember reading the book about the onset of the AIDS crisis, And the Band Played On, and the sheer ease of casual sex in the gay male community in the 70s and early 80s was just astounding. The CDC, after interviewing early patients about their sexual history, had to totally rethink their models showing the spread of disease vectors. We’re taking 50-100 new sexual partners in a month for some guys!
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