2023 lineup

zzs006

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2017
769
1,593
1
I know the 2022 season just ended but I think I’m not the only one who loves looking ahead and discussing the different lineup possibilities. So with that said here is my first take
125- Robbie Howard
133- RBY. Yes, he will be back
141- Beau Bartlett
149- Shayne Van Ness
157- Levi Haines
165- Alex Facundo
174- Carter Starocci
184- Aaron Brooks
197- Michael Beard. Max goes out on top
Hwt- Greg Kerkvliet

I would be happy if Max Dean comes back but I’m actually hoping he goes out on top and that Beard gets to step in and prove that he can be a national champ as well. I fear that if Max does come back that Beard might go elsewhere and I wouldn’t blame him.
I’m not sure about RBY at all but after listening to all of his interviews he sure sounded like he had 1 more year in him. Then again he could have just been caught up in the moment. I hope he comes back and gets his 3rd title. He’s one of the best I have ever seen.
This possible roster is so good and maybe the best Penn State team to date. I could see that team scoring just a stupid amount of points.
I would love to see some others thoughts and what they think next year will look like. And yes, I know it’s early and a million things can and will change. I just think it’s a ton of fun to talk about!
 

Lion8286

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
15,428
22,388
1
Max has already said he's coming back. Guess he could change his mind, though.
 

mcpat

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2021
2,042
4,369
1
I know the 2022 season just ended but I think I’m not the only one who loves looking ahead and discussing the different lineup possibilities. So with that said here is my first take
125- Robbie Howard
133- RBY. Yes, he will be back
141- Beau Bartlett
149- Shayne Van Ness
157- Levi Haines
165- Alex Facundo
174- Carter Starocci
184- Aaron Brooks
197- Michael Beard. Max goes out on top
Hwt- Greg Kerkvliet

I would be happy if Max Dean comes back but I’m actually hoping he goes out on top and that Beard gets to step in and prove that he can be a national champ as well. I fear that if Max does come back that Beard might go elsewhere and I wouldn’t blame him.
I’m not sure about RBY at all but after listening to all of his interviews he sure sounded like he had 1 more year in him. Then again he could have just been caught up in the moment. I hope he comes back and gets his 3rd title. He’s one of the best I have ever seen.
This possible roster is so good and maybe the best Penn State team to date. I could see that team scoring just a stupid amount of points.
I would love to see some others thoughts and what they think next year will look like. And yes, I know it’s early and a million things can and will change. I just think it’s a ton of fun to talk about!
Aside from not knowing about the Dean/Beard situation, I expect that they will redshirt Haines until at least January, and wouldn’t be surprised if they brought someone in at 157 with the idea to redshirt Haines all season. Also, I’m sure Edsell won’t give up 165 without a fight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Kid Twist

McScoreley

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Feb 24, 2019
3,821
8,875
1
Some rumblings on 247 that RBY wants to give 2024 a try at 65KG and then he'll go MMA. If he does go MMA immediately in 2022, he is open to wrestling in the January. Signs are there for him to return, he's teasing quite a bit at this point.
 

zzs006

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2017
769
1,593
1
Aside from not knowing about the Dean/Beard situation, I expect that they will redshirt Haines until at least January, and wouldn’t be surprised if they brought someone in at 157 with the idea to redshirt Haines all season. Also, I’m sure Edsell won’t give up 165 without a fight.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if that is the route that Haines takes. I just feel like he is more than ready after what he showed this year in the opens he wrestled. Unless we bring in a high end transfer (David Carr) I think Levi will prove to be the best option. I can see him having a year very much like Hamiti did this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcpat

El-Jefe

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2012
26,138
55,111
1
Aside from not knowing about the Dean/Beard situation, I expect that they will redshirt Haines until at least January, and wouldn’t be surprised if they brought someone in at 157 with the idea to redshirt Haines all season. Also, I’m sure Edsell won’t give up 165 without a fight.
IIRC Edsell is graduating on-time this spring and might not return.
 

RB-Old

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2020
431
1,075
1
Next year's team will be markedly better imo. You're losing a lot w/ Nick Lee but they'll have all ten guys qualify and contribute so that will more than make up for it. I also think Bartlett will be much better at 141. I think of him wrestling 149 like swinging a bat with a donut on it, when you take it off you have tons more speed.
 

nitlion6

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2012
11,972
13,494
1
Aside from not knowing about the Dean/Beard situation, I expect that they will redshirt Haines until at least January, and wouldn’t be surprised if they brought someone in at 157 with the idea to redshirt Haines all season. Also, I’m sure Edsell won’t give up 165 without a fight.
I am sure Edsell will fight his ass off trying to earn a starting spot on next year's team.
Using reality as an evaluation check,Edsell is a DNQ talent. He most likely will improve, and if he were the starter at 165 I would expect him to qualify next year. An expected tournament result would be 0 or 1-2, a fantastic tournament would be 2-2. If Facundo in his second season in that room isn't our 165 starter next year because he can't beat Edsell then he isn't going to be a point getter in his career at PSU. I am hoping there isn't any question as to who the starter is.
As an aside, Gabe Dean is fairly certain Facundo will be an annual NCAA point getter.
 

dunkej01

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 10, 2005
18,671
28,743
1
Some rumblings on 247 that RBY wants to give 2024 a try at 65KG and then he'll go MMA. If he does go MMA immediately in 2022, he is open to wrestling in the January. Signs are there for him to return, he's teasing quite a bit at this point.
It's not rumblings. He said exactly this in his interview post finals.
 

dunkej01

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 10, 2005
18,671
28,743
1
Someone on 247 also said RBY/Max have NIL deals signed with a booster through 2023.
I belive in the podcast w willie and basch yesterday or on FRL they said NIL needs to be renegotiated every year. You can't just sign a multi year deal.

Pretty sure it was willie talking about the gable situation w WWE.

You also can't just sign w a "booster". It has to be legit and PSU under sandy B was pretty tough on that.
 

johnstownsteel

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
6,381
13,965
1
Johnstown Pa
I’ve said before in another thread I hope Max sticks around either in team or the club strictly to help Beard get his title. Think it would be so selfless and just straight up cool. And would be an insurance policy considering Michael has trouble staying healthy. One name not mentioned yet is Seth Nevills. Hope he comes back to serve in that same role.
 

johnstownsteel

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
6,381
13,965
1
Johnstown Pa
I have deep pockets.

I think the lineup that started this thread needs to make room for Carr and Vito.
Carr yes only so Haines can shirt. If RBY is back, don’t care about Vito. I’m pumped to see what Howard’s got and he’s the kid that wanted to be at PSU from the start. Yes… I give extra points for that. Lol
 

82bordeaux

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2019
4,024
12,731
1
59
eriespecialty.com
I am sure Edsell will fight his ass off trying to earn a starting spot on next year's team.
Using reality as an evaluation check,Edsell is a DNQ talent. He most likely will improve, and if he were the starter at 165 I would expect him to qualify next year. An expected tournament result would be 0 or 1-2, a fantastic tournament would be 2-2. If Facundo in his second season in that room isn't our 165 starter next year because he can't beat Edsell then he isn't going to be a point getter in his career at PSU. I am hoping there isn't any question as to who the starter is.
As an aside, Gabe Dean is fairly certain Facundo will be an annual NCAA point getter.
 

El-Jefe

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2012
26,138
55,111
1
It's not rumblings. He said exactly this in his interview post finals.
Also RBY said earlier this year in a post-match interview with Byers, that after college he'll "definitely go NLWC if they'll have me."

That was posted here at the time -- because the "if they'll have me" part was (and still is) comedy gold.

To believe RBY is going straight MMA, is to believe Cael will kick him to the curb.
 

El-Jefe

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2012
26,138
55,111
1
I belive in the podcast w willie and basch yesterday or on FRL they said NIL needs to be renegotiated every year. You can't just sign a multi year deal.

Pretty sure it was willie talking about the gable situation w WWE.

You also can't just sign w a "booster". It has to be legit and PSU under sandy B was pretty tough on that.
It was Willie and Basch. They specifically pointed out that any kind of performance incentive -- including academic performance -- is illegal, and that this posed a huge barrier in writing a multi-year NIL deal.

Basch especially should have some clue about this, given his business relationships with college athletics.

They also said PSU Athletics blocks athletes from taking run-of-the-mill NIL deals widely approved pretty much everywhere else -- both said outright Cael won't miss Barbour. (Though I wonder how much of that is Barbour, how much is historically hyper-stodgy Old Main, and how much is the PA NIL law.)

So, yeah, you can't just sign with a booster at PSU.
 

vhsalum

Well-Known Member
Nov 14, 2002
315
357
1
I belive in the podcast w willie and basch yesterday or on FRL they said NIL needs to be renegotiated every year. You can't just sign a multi year deal.

Pretty sure it was willie talking about the gable situation w WWE.

You also can't just sign w a "booster". It has to be legit and PSU under sandy B was pretty tough on that.

McFalse. You absolutely can sign multi-year NILs. Google "NIL Multi year deal"


I’ve said before in another thread I hope Max sticks around either in team or the club strictly to help Beard get his title. Think it would be so selfless and just straight up cool. And would be an insurance policy considering Michael has trouble staying healthy. One name not mentioned yet is Seth Nevills. Hope he comes back to serve in that same role.

This makes no sense. This is high level sports. And Max is the returning champ. You only 4 (5) chances to be an NCAA champ.
 

BrockBronson

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2021
578
453
1
How close is the matches between Beard and Dean. I know Beard is right there. It stinks he can’t crack the lineup.
 

jack66

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
7,379
10,858
1
I know the 2022 season just ended but I think I’m not the only one who loves looking ahead and discussing the different lineup possibilities. So with that said here is my first take
125- Robbie Howard
133- RBY. Yes, he will be back
141- Beau Bartlett
149- Shayne Van Ness
157- Levi Haines
165- Alex Facundo
174- Carter Starocci
184- Aaron Brooks
197- Michael Beard. Max goes out on top
Hwt- Greg Kerkvliet

On paper, this line-up looks as solid as any we've had. The front end though (125-165) is extremely young.

We've had a lot of Fr come in and AA right away, but we've also had a few who have fallen short of our lofty expectations.

Devil's advocate - PSU scored 49.5 points from 125-165 this year, but 46 points came from 133 + 141. If RBY doesn't return, can the front end of the line-up still score that many points?

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

hlstone

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2006
2,106
1,899
1
On paper that line-up looks as solid as any we've had. The front end though (125-165) is extremely young.

We've had a lot of Fr come in and AA right away but we've also had a few who have fallen short of our lofty expectations.

Devil's advocate - PSU scored 49.5 points from 125-165 this year but 46 points came from 133+141. If RBY doesn't return can the front end of the line-up still score that many points?

Thoughts?

Without RBY, I would be happy with half of that.
 

creamery freak

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2014
1,776
3,891
1
Haines beating college level kids this year sets him up to challenge for biting the shirt next year. RBY will be back. Lineup if healthy should be epic.
I know Levi is a stud but is there any chance Matt Lee could man 157 for 2023? I could be off base if Matt is too big for that weight as I'm thinking he's a 165 lbr.
 

dunkej01

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 10, 2005
18,671
28,743
1
McFalse. You absolutely can sign multi-year NILs. Google "NIL Multi year deal"




This makes no sense. This is high level sports. And Max is the returning champ. You only 4 (5) chances to be an NCAA champ.
Yeah I see that via the Google. Happening in all sports across the country. So maybe it's a state thing???
 

vhsalum

Well-Known Member
Nov 14, 2002
315
357
1
Yeah I see that via the Google. Happening in all sports across the country. So maybe it's a state thing???

It's a PSU thing. Hopefully that will change with Barbour leaving. She was BAD with the NIL stuff. All of the rumors in the preseason RBY and Brooks being pissed, Sanderson wanting to leave - while it was exaggerated - it wasn't far off the mark. Things were not good for a while there.

And it's an absurd position for PSU to even take. The market determines the value of the athlete, and outside of questionable/moral companies - there should be very few limitations imposed.
 

tullfan68

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jun 20, 2021
1,389
802
1
anyone watch the flo show yesterday,CP said PSU has a big name coming in from the portal dont know how true it is!
 

mcpat

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2021
2,042
4,369
1
On paper that line-up looks as solid as any we've had. The front end though (125-165) is extremely young.

We've had a lot of Fr come in and AA right away but we've also had a few who have fallen short of our lofty expectations.

Devil's advocate - PSU scored 49.5 points from 125-165 this year but 46 points came from 133+141. If RBY doesn't return can the front end of the line-up still score that many points?

Thoughts?
Great question.

RH was 2-2 at nationals in 2021 as a true freshman battling injury having wrestled only nine matches going into nationals. He had wins over Ragusin, Shawver (by Major), Heinselman and Medley. You’re going to have a tough time convincing me that 6th or better isn’t a realistic expectation from him.

Im not sure what we score at 133 without RBY.

I expect BB to be an AA at 141, his true wrestling weight. I’ll conservatively say 7th.

The rest will be unproven. We’ll have high expectations at 149 (SVN) and I’m guessing the transfer talk is about 157.

It’d be unfair to expect AA from Haines as a true freshman. Even RBY was 8th as a true freshman and I might think 157 is a different animal than 125 for an 18-19 year old. He’s looked great against college competition, but hasn’t wrestled AA level competition.

So yes - it’ll be a stretch to think we can replace 46 points at 133 and 141. Even if I slot RH for 6th at 125, BB for 7th at 141 and SVN for 8th at 149, that’s still only 21 points total. 133 and 157 would need to outperform the other three weights combined to replace RBY’s and Nick’s points.

But if we get a Carr level transfer or if RBY returns (and both seem to be in the realm of possibility), then we may find ourselves to be a “well rounded” team. :)
 
Last edited:

zzs006

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2017
769
1,593
1
On paper, this line-up looks as solid as any we've had. The front end though (125-165) is extremely young.

We've had a lot of Fr come in and AA right away, but we've also had a few who have fallen short of our lofty expectations.

Devil's advocate - PSU scored 49.5 points from 125-165 this year, but 46 points came from 133 + 141. If RBY doesn't return, can the front end of the line-up still score that many points?

Thoughts?
The front end will be extremely young next year but I also think it’s going to be so good. The kid I’m probably most excited about is Robbie Howard. He has been kind of out of sight with his injuries but he is so damn good and is going to surprise a lot of people. He went 2-2 as a true freshman while not being 100%. Now that he is healthy the sky is the limit. The key is RBY coming back though. If he doesn’t there is a pretty big hole at 133 unless someone really jumps levels or a transfer comes in. Bartlett will be MUCH better at 141. SVN is the other kid I am really excited to see. His style is so much fun and he is going to wear some people out. I see him AAing with the potential to be really special. So super young front half with 1 huge question mark but if it all falls in place this team will be scary good
 
  • Like
Reactions: jack66

jack66

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
7,379
10,858
1
If RBY is interested in wrestling 65 KGs in Free, might he want to go up to 141 next year?

I know that doesn't fit so nicely into our plan, but I would think he will get his choice.
 

GogglesPaizano

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
3,269
5,006
1
I was a huge proponent of Robbie Howard as a recruit and remain guardedly bullish. That said we will need a serviceable or better plan B in place the remainder of his career.

Shoulder injuries are just so dicey in wrestling. Robbie has had issues and surgeries 2x before having to navigate a full collegiate season including the meat grinder that is both Bigs and Nationals. To think this latest surgery and rehab has permanently addressed the risk is unrealistic. A second injury and subsequent surgery is the real killer for this kind of thing.

Look at how amazingly Cassar rehabbed and rebuilt his body only to hit the wrong situation and ... boom.

If I were a betting man I would put my money on Robbie missing at least one year of the next 4, unfortunately. I would love to be wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski

PAgeologist

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
3,489
4,782
1
Lilly, PA
I was a huge proponent of Robbie Howard as a recruit and remain guardedly bullish. That said we will need a serviceable or better plan B in place the remainder of his career.

Shoulder injuries are just so dicey in wrestling. Robbie has had issues and surgeries 2x before having to navigate a full collegiate season including the meat grinder that is both Bigs and Nationals. To think this latest surgery and rehab has permanently addressed the risk is unrealistic. A second injury and subsequent surgery is the real killer for this kind of thing.

Look at how amazingly Cassar rehabbed and rebuilt his body only to hit the wrong situation and ... boom.

If I were a betting man I would put my money on Robbie missing at least one year of the next 4, unfortunately. I would love to be wrong.
I agree. Robbies career success will likely be more limited by his health rather than his ability.
 

zzs006

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2017
769
1,593
1
I was a huge proponent of Robbie Howard as a recruit and remain guardedly bullish. That said we will need a serviceable or better plan B in place the remainder of his career.

Shoulder injuries are just so dicey in wrestling. Robbie has had issues and surgeries 2x before having to navigate a full collegiate season including the meat grinder that is both Bigs and Nationals. To think this latest surgery and rehab has permanently addressed the risk is unrealistic. A second injury and subsequent surgery is the real killer for this kind of thing.

Look at how amazingly Cassar rehabbed and rebuilt his body only to hit the wrong situation and ... boom.

If I were a betting man I would put my money on Robbie missing at least one year of the next 4, unfortunately. I would love to be wrong.
Well right now there is Steen and new transfer Betancourt. Maybe not super high end but really good depth. Steen seems like a kid who could make a jump in levels as well now that he has a full year under his belt in the PSU room. Also, Braeden Davis is on his way and we hopefully get McGowan. Out of those 2 I’m sure 1 will go 125