2017 NCAAs Session 3 Thread

[Tom McAndrew]

PSU had a nice Day 1. Let's hope they keep it going in Day 2

Wrestling starts at 11 am EDT

TV: ESPNU

Video Streaming: ESPN3

Audio Streaming: Ironhead will be providing his PBP coverage at:

http://www.gopsusports.com/collegesportslive/?media=550914

The audio stream will start at 10:40 am EDT.

I don't know if they start with consolations, or split the mats between consolations and championship brackets, or something else. We'll find out Friday morning, I guess.

Please keep all discussions about Session 3 matches, team scores, PBP, mat assignments, outcomes of matches including non-PSU wrestlers, etc. in this thread.

 

[RCS-PSU70]

We have seven into the quarters and one into the consolations, how do those numbers compare of our closest competitors, Okie St, tOSU, etc.?

 

[diggerpup]

Friday is Separation Day, and it starts w/ morning Quarterfinals.

Each quarterfinal winner is guaranteed All-American, and can finish no worse than 6th.

So, each win in quarters is worth between 7-9 team points (1 advancement, 6 pts for minimum 6th place finish, plus any bonus scored)

Any loser of quarterfinals, gets bounced to the Round of 12. No guarantees from there.

Teams scores will begin to jump fast tomorrow. Hope the PSU boys are ready.

 

[diggerpup]

We have seven into the quarters and one into the consolations, how do those numbers compare of our closest competitors, Okie St, tOSU, etc.?

http://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/content/tournament_team_score.php?id=18&type=team

 

[RCS-PSU70]

http://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/content/tournament_team_score.php?id=18&type=team

got it, thanks.

 

[21Guns]

My guess would be consy first, then quarters.

 

[21Guns]

The Collica loss has had a domino effect on the whole weight class; Now, out of Collica, Jordan, and Sorenson: One of the three WILL NOT AA. This is enormous in the team race.

It should also be noted that as great as Snyder is, he has left 2 points on the mat, by failing to pin twice with two tech falls.

Other notes: Ohio St is in 2nd, but has the least max pts possible out of all four teams in the hunt. Leader there of course is Okla st, but they have a few very, very very VERY tough matches in the quarters where I'm afraid they won't come out on top. Iowa can do some damage, but has a limited number of wrestlers to do it with, even more limited than PSU at this point.

 

[greenmanRD]

My guess would be consy first, then quarters.

You are correct. Since there are two consolation matches in Session 3, they'll go consolation-championship-consolation

 

[rmg78]

"It should also be noted that as great as Snyder is, he has left 2 points on the mat, by failing to pin twice with two tech falls. "

Only 1 point if I am not mistaken. That being said, you have really changed your tune since the Big10's as you made it seem as if we had no chance in the world.

 

[Brian LB-U]

How is everybody feeling about this morning's matchups? Here's my quick take:

Zain/Kocer - Zain MD - Win and he faces the winner of Sorensen/Jordan in the semis

Nolf/Clagon - Nolf MD - win and he gets either Berger or JoJo in the semis

Cenzo/#6 Lewis - Lewis sounds like a real threat but I'll go with VJ in a Dec. win and he meets Massa or Valencia in the semis

Hall/#4 Epperly - My fondest memory of Epperly is him never once threatening to score on Nickal in the dual. Dec Hall - Win and its Valencia or Amine.

Bo/Dudley - Nickal by dec. Win and it's Brooks or Parker in the semis

Cutch/Haught - Haught by Dec. Very tall order for Matt. I suspect he's going to have to fight for his life on the backside.

Nevills/#4 Kasper - Another nail biter but of course I'm going with Nick (Dec). Win and he likely gets another shot at Snyder in the semis.

We have a chance to blow things open but only if we pull out what should prove to be tough wins over Lewis, Epperly and Kasper. Thoughts?

 

[PSUoh90]

Credit to Chattanooga and their negative point total through Day 1.

 

[LemonPie]

I'd be surprised if Zain didn't pin Kocer

 

[greenmanRD]

Cenzo/#6 Lewis - Lewis sounds like a real threat but I'll go with VJ in a Dec. win and he meets Jordan or Walsh in the semis

He'll face Massa or Valencia in semis if he wins.

We have a chance to blow things open but only if we pull out what should prove to be tough wins over Lewis, Epperly and Kasper. Thoughts?

They are tough wins, but they are wins we are capable of. Obviously wins today are huge to guarantee AA and to get that 6 point placement boost.

 

[PSUranger]

You are correct. Since there are two consolation matches in Session 3, they'll go consolation-championship-consolation

Last nights 285 pound consolation match was bout number 340. According to track wrestling, bout # 341 is the 125 pound 1/4 match between Gilman & Picc so it looks to me like the 1/4's are first today.

 

[greenmanRD]

Last nights 285 pound consolation match was bout number 340. According to track wrestling, bout # 341 is the 125 pound 1/4 match between Gilman & Picc so it looks to me like the 1/4's are first today.

Hm, I could've sworn it was the other way around last year. Then again, it's not like we were staying long for consolation matches anyway. And I was always in a rush to find a bar in Times Square.

 

[PSUranger]

this looks like 1/4's and consi's at the same time.

10 a.m. - 2 p.m. (approx.) Third Session- Eight Mat Configuration, *Quarterfinals on middle four mats; Wrestle-Back Second and Third Rounds on outside mats.

 

[Brian LB-U]

He'll face Massa or Valencia in semis if he wins.



They are tough wins, but they are wins we are capable of. Obviously wins today are huge to guarantee AA and to get that 6 point placement boost.

That's what I get for reading the brackets on my giant iPhone 5. . Thanks.

 

[PSU Mike]

Does VJ choose down?

 

[Pennstate1985]

Last nights 285 pound consolation match was bout number 340. According to track wrestling, bout # 341 is the 125 pound 1/4 match between Gilman & Picc so it looks to me like the 1/4's are first today.

Courtesy Kwoodhawk on HR:

Third Session: Eight mat configuration with quarterfinals on middle four mats. Wrestled-back second and third rounds on outside mats.

Fourth Session: Six mat "dog bone" configuration with semifinals on inside two mats (one weight at a time) and wrestle-badck fourth rounds on outside four mats followed by wrestle-back fifth rounds on all six mats.

So both consis and qtrs are be wrestled simultaneously.

 

[greenmanRD]

this looks like 1/4's and consi's at the same time.

10 a.m. - 2 p.m. (approx.) Third Session- Eight Mat Configuration, *Quarterfinals on middle four mats; Wrestle-Back Second and Third Rounds on outside mats.

UGH, that's what it is! I can't believe I'm this dumb considering I was there last year.

 

[psu_flip]

For me, today is the best day of the tournament. Guys go balls out. Love the blood round.

 

[SWPA]

What are the mat numbers of the 4 middle mats where the quarters will be taking place?

 

[Antaeus]

http://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/content/tournament_team_score.php?id=18&type=team

I need help with the scoring potential. Looking at the PWC team scoring link provide just look at two teams with the same number of participants moving on:
PennState: 30.5 points, 223 max points, 7 in Quarters, 1 in consolations
OhioState: 26 points, 219.5 max points, 5 in Quarters, 3 in consolations

If after day one PSU has a 4.5 point lead with 7 in the winners bracket and 1 in the losers bracket and tOSU has only 5 in the winners bracket and 3 in the losers bracket, how can they close the gap in max point potential to 3.5(223-219.5)? This can only mean more points can be gained pinning your way through the consolation bracket than the winners bracket. You get to wrestle more matches against lesser competition and can generate more points.

Assuming the PWC math and mine is correct I really don't understand why would any sport reward losing more than winning? Possible simple solution: team points in consolations are one-half of what they are in the winners bracket. If I'm missing something please enlighten.

 

[tikk10]

Can't process everything I've shot but I think you'll appreciate this one showing Cael applying body english to McCutcheon's pin from neutral.

 

[Real-Lion]

Does VJ choose down?

Cenzo and Hall should not chose down...Hope our coaches know our guys are better on their feet against these 2 guys....Especially Epperly....All MUST relax, have fun, and score points...FIND ANGLES FOR SHOTS !!!!

 

[Pennstate1985]

This can only mean more points can be gained pinning your way through the consolation bracket than the winners bracket. You get to wrestle more matches against lesser competition and can generate more points.

Your assumption assumes the tOSU guy is the superior guy for instance. Rodriguez isn't a superior guy to many in his consi bracket for example. Also, there is a reason a guy is in the consi bracket. They are not that much more superior to anyone else. They often do not bonus in consolations as they want to advance to the next round and take fewer chances and/or don't want to use excessive energy to bonus. Every year this issue comes up, but far fewer bonus is earned on the backside than on the front side, and much of the front side bonus comes early.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Quarterfinals for PSU this morning:

149: Zain vs. Alex Kocer (S. Dakota St)

157: Nolf vs. Byant Clagon (Rider)

165: Joseph vs. #6 seed Daniel Lewis (Mizzou)

174: Mark Hall vs. #4 seed Zach Epperly

184: Nickal vs. #7 seed Timothy Dudley (Nebraska)

197: Cutch vs. #4 seed Jared Haught (VT)

285: Nevills vs. #4 seed Jacob Kasper


Consolation matches this morning for PSU:

141: Gulibon vs. Timmy Box (Northern Colorado)

 

[Tom McAndrew]

A look at who our team competitors have this morning.

Ok. St.
125 Quarter, Piccininni vs. #1 seed Thomas Gilman
133 Quarter, Kaid Brock vs. Bryan Lantry (Buffalo)
141 Quarter, Dean Heil vs. #8 seed Jaydin Eierman (Mizzou)
149 Consolation R2: Anthony Collica vs. Joshua Maruca (ASU)
157 Quarter, JoJo Smith vs. #4 seed Tyler Berger (Nebraska)
165 Quarter, Chandler Rogers vs. #1 seed Isaiah Martinez (Illini)
174 Consolation R2: Kyle Crutchmer vs. Ethan Ramos (UNC)
184 Quarter, Nolan Boyd vs. Drew Foster (No. Iowa)
197 Quarter, Preston Weigel vs. #3 seed Kollin Moore (Ohio St)
285 Consolation R2: Austin Schafer vs Doug Vollaro (Lehigh)

Piccininni and Rogers have very little chance. Weigel and JoJo will be underdogs. Eierman is inconsistent, so I'm not sure what Heil will face. Boyd and Brock should have no trouble.

Ohio St.
125 Consolation R2: Joe Rodriguez vs. Tim Lambert (Nebraska)
133 Quarter, NaTo vs. #8 seed Zane Richards (Illini)
141 Consolation R2: Luke Pletcher vs. Topher Carton (Iowa)
149 Quarter, Micah Jordan vs. #4 seed Brandon Sorensen (Iowa)
157 - nobody
165 - nobody (Burcher is out)
174 Quarter, BoJo vs. Alex Meyer (Iowa)
184 Consolation R2: Myles Martin vs. Joe Heyob (U Penn)
197 Quarter, Kollin Moore vs. #6 seed Preston Weigel
285 Quarter, Kyle Snyder vs. Michael Kroells (Minny)

that's a lot of Ohio St. - Iowa matchups. They have 5 in the quarters, and Snyder, Moore, BoJo, and NaTo will be favored. Micah - Sorensen should be a good match. Pletcher and MyMar should be favored in Consolation, while Rodriguez will be an underdog. Ohio State could be in very good position after Session 3

Iowa
125 Quarters, Gilman vs. #8 seed Piccininni (Ok. St.)
133 Quarters, Cory Clark vs #5 seed Stevan Micic (Mich)
141 Consolations R2: Topher Carton vs. Luke Pletcher (Ohio St)
149 Quarters, Sorensen vs. #4 seed Micah Jordan (Ohio St)
157 Quarters, Kemer vs. #7 seed Dylan Palacio (Cornell)
165 Consolations R2: Joseph Gunther vs. Branson Ashworth (Wyoming)
174 Quarters, Alex Meyer vs. #3 seed Bo Jordan (Ohio St)
184 Quarters, Sammy Brooks vs. Emory Parker (Illini)
197 Consolations R2: Cash Wilcke vs. Josh Marchok (Stanford)
285 - nobody

Gilman and Brooks will be strong favorites. Kemer is a favorite, but Palacio can be tough. Clark and Sorensen have matches that could go either way. Meyer will be an underdog.

It should be an interesting Session 3

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Team Standings at the start of Session 3:

PSU - 30.5
Ohio St - 26
Ok. St. - 25.5
Iowa - 24.5
Mizzou - 20
VT - 19
Minny - 18.5
Cornell - 18
CMU - 14.5
Lehigh - 14
Nebraska - 14
ASU - 13.5
Illini - 13.5
Wisky - 13.5
Edinboro - 11.5
No. Iowa - 11
Rider - 11
NC St - 10
Old Dominion - 10
etc.

 

[jack66]

125 - Rodriguez vs Lambert (a win by Lambert would end OSU's non-7 scoring)
141 - Box vs Gulibon
141 - Carton vs Pletcher (loser is out, winner could get Jimmy next)
149 - Collica vs Maruca (hope Zane didn't beat Maruca up too bad)
149 - Logo vs Gardner (winner is in Collica's path)
165 - Gunther vs Ashworth (Gunther is getting a pretty easy ride through Consis, Ashworth needs to end it here)
174 - Crutchmer vs Ramos (Ramos needs to end KC's AA run here, next match will be much easier)
184 - Habob vs Martin
197 - Marchok vs Wilke (Like Gunther, Wilke is also getting a doable run though consis)
Hwt - Vollaro vs Shafer (dangerous match for Okie St here)

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Mats 1, 2, 7, and 8 will be consolations. Mats 3, 4, 5, and 6 will be championship bracket

Zain will be on Mat 3

Nolf will be on Mat 3

 

[diggerpup]

I need help with the scoring potential. Looking at the PWC team scoring link provide just look at two teams with the same number of participants moving on:
PennState: 30.5 points, 223 max points, 7 in Quarters, 1 in consolations
OhioState: 26 points, 219.5 max points, 5 in Quarters, 3 in consolations

If after day one PSU has a 4.5 point lead with 7 in the winners bracket and 1 in the losers bracket and tOSU has only 5 in the winners bracket and 3 in the losers bracket, how can they close the gap in max point potential to 3.5(223-219.5)? This can only mean more points can be gained pinning your way through the consolation bracket than the winners bracket. You get to wrestle more matches against lesser competition and can generate more points.

Assuming the PWC math and mine is correct I really don't understand why would any sport reward losing more than winning? Possible simple solution: team points in consolations are one-half of what they are in the winners bracket. If I'm missing something please enlighten.

"Max Pts" is an interesting but overstated statistic.

All it really shows is which teams have a lot of wrestlers still alive, and the "max possible points" just assumes they'll win every single match by fall -
Something that won't happen.

 

[Brian LB-U]

Tom, Zain has Kocer from South Dakota St. who knocked off Lugo and Oliver yesterday.

Quarterfinals for PSU this morning:

149: Zain vs. Justin Oliver (CMU)

157: Nolf vs. Byant Clagon (Rider)

165: Joseph vs. #6 seed Daniel Lewis (Mizzou)

174: Mark Hall vs. #4 seed Zach Epperly

184: Nickal vs. #7 seed Timothy Dudley (Nebraska)

197: Cutch vs. #4 seed Jared Haught (VT)

285: Nevills vs. #4 seed Jacob Kasper


Consolation matches this morning for PSU:

141: Gulibon vs. Timmy Box (Northern Colorado)

n

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Tom, Zain has Kocer from South Dakota St. who knocked off Lugo and Oliver yesterday.

you are correct. I was copying what I put together last night -- not sure how I made that mistake; too many hours ago, and too many small screens ago. I corrected my earlier post.

 

[El-Jefe]

this looks like 1/4's and consi's at the same time.

10 a.m. - 2 p.m. (approx.) Third Session- Eight Mat Configuration, *Quarterfinals on middle four mats; Wrestle-Back Second and Third Rounds on outside mats.

This makes more sense. Thinking about it: unless both brackets are run completely concurrently, somebody will have the advantage of more rest between matches. Should want that to be the guy who advanced further in the winners' bracket. Both brackets in parallel neutralizes that edge, which is fair -- though the guy who just dropped into consis has a short time to mentally re-group.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Team Standings at the start of Session 3:

PSU - 30.5
Ohio St - 26
Iowa - 24.5
Ok. St. - 24.5

etc.

Tom, Track and I show OSU (the real one, not the bucknuts) at 25.5. I think everyone forgot Crutchmer had a major in the consi round.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Tom, Track and I show OSU (the real one, not the bucknuts) at 25.5. I think everyone forgot Crutchmer had a major in the consi round.

lol. another post that I simply copied from what I put together last night. It does appear that Ok. St. has 25.5 points. I'll correct my post. Thx (turns out there were 2 other changes I had to make from what I had put together last night)

 

[CowboyUp61]

lol. another post that I simply copied from what I put together last night. It does appear that Ok. St. has 25.5 points. I'll correct my post. Thx (turns out there were 2 other changes I had to make from what I had put together last night)

we are going to need every point we can get to get to my pre-tourney estimate of 105. Hopefully our 3 seniors on the backside don't give up. Same thing happened to Johnny Thompson back in the old days, and he came back strong and scored a bunch of points finishing 3rd. Last year, Klimara just gave up.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Byers stream started about 1 min late. And it's already buffered twice

 

[dunkej01]

the foxcatcher 30:30 thats on now before wrestling....ive probably watched +5 times and every time it still makes me a bit emotional. Such a tragedy.