ADVERTISEMENT

You Make the Call: should Manville have been hit with back points? ...

Tom McAndrew

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
56,692
40,371
1
this is from the FloNationals semifinal match at 152, with The Anvil facing Connor Flynn. There are 8 sec. left in the match. The score on the board is 4-3, in favor of Flynn. However, The Anvil had RT locked up. As such, the effective score was 4-4. You can view the Flo video at this link.

In this sequence, Manville tries a move from the restart where he's on bottom that you don't see too often. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't get his hips turned.

The specific high school rule on awarding near fall points is as follows (it's Rule 5-6, Section 11, Article 2)

"ART. 2 ... A near fall occurs when the offensive wrestler has control of the opponent in a pinning situation and near-fall criteria are met for a period of two seconds or longer (Photos 5-8)

a. Criteria for a near fall occur when any part of both shoulders or both scapulae of the defensive wrestler are held within 4 inches of the mat or less; or when one shoulder or scapular of the defensive wrestler is touching the mat and the other shoulder or scapular is held at an angle of 45 degrees or less with the mat; or when the defensive wrestler is held in a high bridge or on both elbows.
b. Only the wrester with the advantage, who has an opponent in the pinning situation, may score a near fall;
c. A near fall is ended with the defensive wrestler gets out of a pinning situation. The referee must not signal the score for a near fall until the situation, regardless of number of times the offensive wrestler places an opponent in the near-fall position during the pinning situation;"

There are more subsections to the article, but they deal with what happens if there is an injury, bleeding, a potentially dangerous situation, etc.


The angle provided in the video isn't perfect, but it's all we have here.

The biggest consideration is that to award 2 NF, the criteria listed above in the rules have to be met for 2 seconds. If the defensive wrestler gets out of the criteria, then a previous swipe is a non-factor, and the offensive wrestler would have to bring the defensive wrestler back into criteria and hold the defensive wrestler in criteria for 2 seconds to get 2 NF points.

The Anvil certainly gets his lower body turned after the 1st swipe. It appears to me that his upper body also goes out of criteria, but due to the angle I'm not 100% sure.

If the ref does not award 2 NF this match would have gone to OT.

What is your call?

Tom
 
Yes, the call is a good one. I guess you could argue that he broke 45 halfway through, but it was really, really close and in real time that is called two most every time. Was a nice move by the Flynn kid, seen that technique - basically grab a front head off stand up, pull back and try to control hips when you hit the mat - mastered by a few kids over the years. Ricky Rappo was real good at it when he was at UPenn, beat Kellen Russell with it once.
 
Looks like a good call.....close, but good. I would give the ref some credit for quickly getting into position to see all the action. His eyes are focused on the action while his feet are covering a lot of ground. The second ref is in perfect view.

Great move by Flynn.
This post was edited on 4/10 12:05 PM by SRATH
 
I didnt think he had it. Appeared that it should have been two separate swipes.
 
I'm with you psualt. Two one counts do not add up to 2 nearfall point in my math class! I saw one swipe then Manville turns away and the ref switches sides and there is another one count......no points as I see it.
 
You guys are task taking very rigid view of 45 degrees. If there were instant replay available to all refs AND forty-SIX degrees was interpreted consistently, maybe I'd buy it that it wasn't 2.

This post was edited on 4/11 12:41 PM by dicemen99
 
Not a bad call, but I think the timing of the swipes started with one shoulder on top of Flynn and the other not on the mat.
 
Thought it was a justifiable call as he never definitively "out of criteria" - specifically one side of back was on mat & whether he ever broke 45 degrees is not ascertainable.
 
definitely justifiable but I had to look twice and the second look I really questioned if the 2 should have been scored? Its one of those calls thats close enough it hard to argue.
 
Originally posted by crazylegs2:
definitely justifiable but I had to look twice and the second look I really questioned if the 2 should have been scored? Its one of those calls thats close enough it hard to argue.
Ditto. After watching the tape several times I think MAYBE it wasn't 2, which is to say maybe it was. Way to close to call and if this was a college match and they reviewed it IMHO they would not overturn the call.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT