With Today and the Phillies announcements(OT)

[PSUriseANDfire]

Well it seems like Middleton is basically taking the lead ownership role which is HUGE because he is going to spare no expense. MacPhail is being brought in to be Gillick's special assistant than will assume full time operational duty next year. Gillick has FULL authority right now so Ruben is as we thought definitely done, Thank God.

Things can turn around pretty quick possibly, a lot quicker than we thought. We could have 7-8 top 100 prospects and that is not factoring Franco or whatever the Hamels trade brings in,

The managerial decision should be interesting. I sort of love the idea of Gardenhire. The Bud Black interest I hope isn't there so much. Who do we want?

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

And the new leadership and owner talking knowledgably about sabremetrics was pretty great. The old school is done in Philly. Things are about to change.

 

[zwick99]

Well it seems like Middleton is basically taking the lead ownership role which is HUGE because he is going to spare no expense. MacPhail is being brought in to be Gillick's special assistant than will assume full time operational duty next year. Gillick has FULL authority right now so Ruben is as we thought definitely done, Thank God.

Things can turn around pretty quick possibly, a lot quicker than we thought. We could have 7-8 top 100 prospects and that is not factoring Franco or whatever the Hamels trade brings in,

The managerial decision should be interesting. I sort of love the idea of Gardenhire. The Bud Black interest I hope isn't there so much. Who do we want?

Keep dreaming. Until they clean house nothing will change. If Middleton has control then why did MONTY conduct the search and hire one of his boys? What makes you think Ruben is done? He is still here isn't he? Gillick has was quoted just last week that as long as he is he here then Amaro will have a job. Is Amaro done the same way Charlie(still working for PHillies), Wade(still working), Bowa(still working), and Dallas Green(still working) are done? The ONLY GM the last 30 years not on the current payroll is Lee Thomas.


This is window dressing for the naïve Phillies fans. MacPhail was hired to make a s few changes as possible and sell tickets.

The Phillies idea of change is for everyone to keep their jobs and have new titles.

 

[Michael.Felli]

SO, what do you think will happen by the trade deadline. Who stays and who goes? You obviously are now optimistic. Do you think the players feel likewise and will want to stay?

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Keep dreaming. Until they clean house nothing will change. If Middleton has control then why did MONTY conduct the search and hire one of his boys? What makes you think Ruben is done? He is still here isn't he? Gillick has was quoted just last week that as long as he is he here then Amaro will have a job. Is Amaro done the same way Charlie(still working for PHillies), Wade(still working), Bowa(still working), and Dallas Green(still working) are done? The ONLY GM the last 30 years not on the current payroll is Lee Thomas.


This is window dressing for the naïve Phillies fans. MacPhail was hired to make a s few changes as possible and sell tickets.

The Phillies idea of change is for everyone to keep their jobs and have new titles.

Middleton has control now. It's been the angle for a while now. And regarding Amaro, they put him in the back of the room and they did everything they could to not give him a vote of confidence. You don't say Gillick has full control if Amaro has literally ANY say left.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

SO, what do you think will happen by the trade deadline. Who stays and who goes? You obviously are now optimistic. Do you think the players feel likewise and will want to stay?

MacPhail basically said that Middleton told him he was going to open his wallet to him in every way possible. Lots of contracts coming off the books but I expect the possibly even bigger spending to continue. Doubt this time around the money will be heading to declining veterans.

 

[zwick99]

Middleton has control now. It's been the angle for a while now. And regarding Amaro, they put him in the back of the room and they did everything they could to not give him a vote of confidence. You don't say Gillick has full control if Amaro has literally ANY say left.

Memo: Middleton was there all along. He did not just buy in. Nothing has changed. According to everything that has been written about the PHillies ownership setup Middleton is NOT in total control and can't legally be in control unless the other owners elect him managing partner.



If Amaro did not have any say he would not be working there. This is about selling tickets just like the last move.


Let me know when Amaro is fired. I am not talking about a different title either. I am talking about turning in his key and being escorted out of the building. The Phillies keep Amaro, Wade, Monty and so in in the back of the room during press conferences in order to make you think they are out of the loop. That is to sell tickets. The fact is they still have input on player decisions. Nothing has changed until they clean house.


The Phillies are still a joke. Who is running the show? MIddleton, MacPhail, or Gillick? They hired MacPhail but you say Middleton has control and Gillick has total control. Winning organizations have a clear chain of command and that is NOT the Phillies.

 

[zwick99]

MacPhail basically said that Middleton told him he was going to open his wallet to him in every way possible. Lots of contracts coming off the books but I expect the possibly even bigger spending to continue. Doubt this time around the money will be heading to declining veterans.

They already opened their wallet. The PHillies had one of the HIGHEST payrolls in baseball the last 5 years. WHO is making the decisions? Who has input on those decisions? Is Amaro still there? Are all the same scouts who could not see Ryan Howard and Chase Utley going in the tank still there?

Who was fired at the press conference? Sounds like nobody was fired which tells me nothing has changed.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

I don't know if you watched the PC or not but I know a lot of really negative Phillies fans. You are the first online or in person to come away from that not ecstatic about the direction they seem to want to head. Montgomery is still technically chief. The words that were used today were obviously not words he would use or something he would support given his past. Think whatever you want I guess. Everyone knows that their payroll was high. They just spent it mostly out of loyalty vs. actual future performance likelihood.

 

[Cletus11]

I think people expecting a quick turnaround are smoking too much medical marijuana. This org is devoid of a MLB ready talent. Their are some prospects in lower levels, but so does most orgs have them. Phils are not ranked as one of the worst farm systems for nothing. A few guys this year look good which brings them from bottom to middle, but they are nowhere near where the good organization are with respect to minor league.

Middleton opening the wallet and going out and bringing in some high priced guys only works if the right guys are brought in. Having ownership willing to spend is a good thing and makes the chances much, much better of getting competitive faster, but in no way is it automatic.

If I were the GM, I would trade Hamels for the best I could get regardless of what that actually is, ie...not the Amaro nothing was good enough type of situation. I would see if anybody would take Howard even if I have to pay a decent amount of salary just to get him out of the clubhouse and allow somebody from the farm to come up and play first base, even it if ends up giving Ruf some time to sink or swim officially.

I would then go out this off season and try to get a few decent guys (no big contacts) on medium length deals who have some proven stats and are known to be good clubhouse guys and real workers. Guys that will bring the team back to respectable and be able to mentor some of the younger guys next year. Then go out in 2017 off-season and try to sign a couple big name guys with the object of being contenders in start of 2018 season.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Phils are not ranked as one of the worst farm systems for nothing. .

Before this season, yeah. Law, who seems to hate the Phillies organization has said that the talent level of the organizational depth appears to have been extremely misjudged.

 

[Golic55]

Who are the top 100 prospects?

 

[delcoLion]

Keep dreaming. Until they clean house nothing will change. If Middleton has control then why did MONTY conduct the search and hire one of his boys? What makes you think Ruben is done? He is still here isn't he? Gillick has was quoted just last week that as long as he is he here then Amaro will have a job. Is Amaro done the same way Charlie(still working for PHillies), Wade(still working), Bowa(still working), and Dallas Green(still working) are done? The ONLY GM the last 30 years not on the current payroll is Lee Thomas.


This is window dressing for the naïve Phillies fans. MacPhail was hired to make a s few changes as possible and sell tickets.

The Phillies idea of change is for everyone to keep their jobs and have new titles.

Normally, I would agree with your opinion but I suspect (hope?) that this time is different. I don't think any of the guys you mention will be calling any shots once they get past this season. A house-cleaning, front office and the field, is what's coming.

 

[cjrugger]

A Phillies team that can make the playoffs will need 8 new position players and 5 new starters (after Hamels is traded). Where are you getting all those guys in a couple of years?

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Who are the top 100 prospects?

Nola, Biddle, Quinn, Crawford, Altherr, Tocci, Randolph or even Kingery are all shots. Phils stole Kingery in the second round and Randolph has come out swinging. I am missing a lot I'm sure. This has been a very encouraging season.

 

[Grant Green]

Where does the Middleton stuff come from? As I understood, the other owners are pretty set against giving anyone 51%.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

A Phillies team that can make the playoffs will need 8 new position players and 5 new starters (after Hamels is traded). Where are you getting all those guys in a couple of years?

Franco doesn't need to go anywhere haha. I understand the point though. I shouldn't have went to the extreme but the situation is not as dire as it seemed. The pitching prospects are solid and in spite of what some are saying it is close to ready if not already ready to go.

 

[zwick99]

Normally, I would agree with your opinion but I suspect (hope?) that this time is different. I don't think any of the guys you mention will be calling any shots once they get past this season. A house-cleaning, front office and the field, is what's coming.

The Phillies have NEVER cleaned house. The ONLY GM from the last 30 years not on the current payroll is Lee Thomas. The Phillies currently have at least 8 former/current managers and GMs still collecting checks. This is not a team that makes big changes. Nobody was fired today. The Phillies will simply give the problem execs new titles. They will still be calling shots. That is why the Phillies hired one of MOnty's long time buddies.

If this team was serious about making changes they would have hired a young assistant Gm from a team like the Cards or Giants who has NO ties to MOnty and Giles.

I predict the Phillies hire Ruben Amaro III as the new GM and make Ruben Amaro Jr a consultant. Everyone else will keep their jobs.


PS. Did anyone follow the MLB draft? It turns out the PHillies drafted Tom McCarthy's son and Amaro's nephew for the second time. This team is all about the good ole boy network.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Where does the Middleton stuff come from? As I understood, the other owners are pretty set against giving anyone 51%.

He's been aiming at this for years and he basically has control locked up. As I understand it his sister suing him is throwing a wrench into things.

 

[zwick99]

I think people expecting a quick turnaround are smoking too much medical marijuana. This org is devoid of a MLB ready talent. Their are some prospects in lower levels, but so does most orgs have them. Phils are not ranked as one of the worst farm systems for nothing. A few guys this year look good which brings them from bottom to middle, but they are nowhere near where the good organization are with respect to minor league.

Middleton opening the wallet and going out and bringing in some high priced guys only works if the right guys are brought in. Having ownership willing to spend is a good thing and makes the chances much, much better of getting competitive faster, but in no way is it automatic.

If I were the GM, I would trade Hamels for the best I could get regardless of what that actually is, ie...not the Amaro nothing was good enough type of situation. I would see if anybody would take Howard even if I have to pay a decent amount of salary just to get him out of the clubhouse and allow somebody from the farm to come up and play first base, even it if ends up giving Ruf some time to sink or swim officially.

I would then go out this off season and try to get a few decent guys (no big contacts) on medium length deals who have some proven stats and are known to be good clubhouse guys and real workers. Guys that will bring the team back to respectable and be able to mentor some of the younger guys next year. Then go out in 2017 off-season and try to sign a couple big name guys with the object of being contenders in start of 2018 season.

The Phillies will just give Howard and Utley more money.

 

[royboy]

A Phillies team that can make the playoffs will need 8 new position players and 5 new starters (after Hamels is traded). Where are you getting all those guys in a couple of years?

Maikel Franco, age 22, hitting .304 with 10 HRs, and getting compliments from Mike Schmidt on his fielding, would be one, don't you think?
Ben Revere, age 27, should be solid for a while.

Beyond that, I don't know.

 

[Grant Green]

He's been aiming at this for years and he basically has control locked up. As I understand it his sister suing him is throwing a wrench into things.

I understand that he has been going for this, but it's not up to him. Existing owners have to sell him some of their shares, and as I understand, they are set against this.

 

[cjrugger]

Franco doesn't need to go anywhere haha. I understand the point though. I shouldn't have went to the extreme but the situation is not as dire as it seemed. The pitching prospects are solid and in spite of what some are saying it is close to ready if not already ready to go.

Jesse Biddle has a 3.81 ERA and 50K:33BB in 75 Innings as a 23 year old in AA. I guess those are better than last years numbers though.

Nola has looked really good
Where are the rest of the arms?

 

[EPC FAN]

A Phillies team that can make the playoffs will need 8 new position players and 5 new starters (after Hamels is traded). Where are you getting all those guys in a couple of years?

The Phillies will just give Howard and Utley more money.

Utley will be gone after this season. His injury will kill his option year. He needs 502 plate appearances this season. They will buy him out.
Howard is more complicated, but I see them negotiating a buyout with him.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

The ONLY GM from the last 30 years not on the current payroll is Lee Thomas.

It's not as though they've had a lot of GMs in the past 30 years. That said, I think your statement is inaccurate.

GMs of the past 30 years:
Bill Giles - was at the time and still is part of the ownership group
Woody Woodward - only a GM for a year, but I don't think he's on the Phil's payroll
Lee Thomas - last I heard he was with the Orioles
Ed Wade - has been a special consultant for the Phils since he was fired by the Astros
Pat Gillick - currently is serving as Phils president
Ruben Amaro, Jr. - has been the GM since 2008

I think Woodward is retired, and Thomas is with another organization, so that's 2 of the 6 GMs over the past 30 years that are not on the Phil's payroll.

 

[Cletus11]

Nola, Biddle, Quinn, Crawford, Altherr, Tocci, Randolph or even Kingery are all shots. Phils stole Kingery in the second round and Randolph has come out swinging. I am missing a lot I'm sure. This has been a very encouraging season.

So you are assuming that all the guys that looked good this year are going to be major league ready soon and some of them are going to turn into superstars. That is like expecting somebody to bat .500. History says one of those guys will be an all star, maybe another one or two quality MLB players and the rest will end up as nothing.

Phils need to get lucky and hope that more than the historical average of those guys end up being legit MLB guys and that a couple of them end up being the next Rollins/Hamels/Howard/Utley type legit all star.. They need sign some high priced guys that pan out, something that is much more difficult than it seems. They need to find some other lower priced guys that way over perform (Shane Victorino and Jason Werth types). And to think an organization that still has Ed Wade and Ruben Amaro as decision makers is going to get all those things to fall in place is crazy.

 

[EPC FAN]

Where does the Middleton stuff come from? As I understood, the other owners are pretty set against giving anyone 51%.

So you are assuming that all the guys that looked good this year are going to be major league ready soon and some of them are going to turn into superstars. That is like expecting somebody to bat .500. History says one of those guys will be an all star, maybe another one or two quality MLB players and the rest will end up as nothing.

Phils need to get lucky and hope that more than the historical average of those guys end up being legit MLB guys and that a couple of them end up being the next Rollins/Hamels/Howard/Utley type legit all star.. They need sign some high priced guys that pan out, something that is much more difficult than it seems. They need to find some other lower priced guys that way over perform (Shane Victorino and Jason Werth types). And to think an organization that still has Ed Wade and Ruben Amaro as decision makers is going to get all those things to fall in place is crazy.

Jayson Werth was a top draft choice who had a broken wrist and was given up on by his original team. He was not an overachiever. Shane Victorino was a Rule 5 guy who Tommy Lasorda argued vehemently with the Dodgers to keep him.

 

[kgilbert78]

A Phillies team that can make the playoffs will need 8 new position players and 5 new starters (after Hamels is traded). Where are you getting all those guys in a couple of years?

Eh, that's a little too dark. Most baseball teams would love to have a Franco right now.

 

[Cletus11]

Jayson Werth was a top draft choice who had a broken wrist and was given up on by his original team. He was not an overachiever. Shane Victorino was a Rule 5 guy who Tommy Lasorda argued vehemently with the Dodgers to keep him.

Phillies got both guys cheap and they way outperformed their contracts. That is what I mean by overachieve.

 

[Ranger Dan]

sabremetrics

I'm no expert, but I believe in the philosophy of managing by data. I certainly hope hat the Phillies move in this direction.

 

[cjrugger]

Eh, that's a little too dark. Most baseball teams would love to have a Franco right now.

True, they only need 7 new position players

 

[bwifan]

I don't know if true or not but I have heard Middleton(know several people that know Middleton) has an agreement in place with 1 or more of the remaining owners that will give him 51%... Not sure if its when that owner passes on or at some set time/date but I have heard that Middleton will be controlling owner in the not so distant future. Look for the old guard to be pushed/bought out. Giles/Montgomery et al will be moving on or in a very minimal role. Middleton is an agressive businessman and is that way in many facets of his life. He has not been happy with Montgomery/Giles the last several years and look for this to be the start of many changes with the phillies. They will be upgrading all their scouts and using the latest stats/algo's to rate players and will be aggressive in signing free agents where needed. Middleton is an aggresive owner and expect him to push and make changes and spend money. Key will be having a good GM and scouts to spend it in the right places which is why Rubes/Gillick are gone and MacPhail in ..... Middleton didn't become a billionaire by being stupid in business.

 

[Grant Green]

I don't know if true or not but I have heard Middleton(know several people that know Middleton) has an agreement in place with 1 or more of the remaining owners that will give him 51%... Not sure if its when that owner passes on or at some set time/date but I have heard that Middleton will be controlling owner in the not so distant future. Look for the old guard to be pushed/bought out. Giles/Montgomery et al will be moving on or in a very minimal role. Middleton is an agressive businessman and is that way in many facets of his life. He has not been happy with Montgomery/Giles the last several years and look for this to be the start of many changes with the phillies. They will be upgrading all their scouts and using the latest stats/algo's to rate players and will be aggressive in signing free agents where needed. Middleton is an aggresive owner and expect him to push and make changes and spend money. Key will be having a good GM and scouts to spend it in the right places which is why Rubes/Gillick are gone and MacPhail in ..... Middleton didn't become a billionaire by being stupid in business.

Man, I hope you are right. I was very pleased with his PC. If he is not in line to get 51%, he certainly seems to be taking a more aggressive role and the other owners seem to be ok with that.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Man, I hope you are right. I was very pleased with his PC. If he is not in line to get 51%, he certainly seems to be taking a more aggressive role and the other owners seem to be ok with that.

This is exactly what I had heard. It was basically wrapped up. Then his issues with his sister really began stalling the process.