I know attendance is dropping, but it seems like there is also an arms race to build bigger and bigger stadiums across the country. It's interesting that people are discussing decreasing the size of the Beaver Stadium. Just a couple years ago, we use to pack 110-111k for a home game. Then capacity dropped to below 108, now it say capacity is below 107...... It's just interesting how everything is evolving...
The Future of Beaver Stadium
- Thread starter Evan Ceg
- Start date
Like I said earlier- if they look into it and find the lack of need or cost to be prohibitive then fine. It was just an idea to float out there. If there's anything we've seen over the years it's that the PSU athletic department doesn't think much 'outside the box'.
They were lazy for sure. The old boys club was strong back then. Step should have been phased in over the years. At the same time they neglected to tap into other sources of revenue.
The last time that I saw troughs was when I went to a Steeler's game and did not sit in the club level. That dump that the Rooney's built is a disgrace. Troughs to pi$$ in, narrow concourses, too few bathrooms and skinny seats! What a dump Heinz Field is compared to PNC Park. Yet, the Rooney's are idolized around town and Nutting is considered "cheap".
Oh yeah, only 3 gate to enter and 1 escalator to the top end zone seats as well. What a DUMP!
They never averaged 110-111k per game. The stadium record is 110,753. In 2011, the stadium capacity was reduced from 107,282 seats to 106,572 to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
2014 101,623
2013 96,587
2012 96,730
2011 101,427
2010 104,234
2009 107,008
2008 108,254
2007 108,917
2006 107,567
2005 104,859
2004 103,111
2003 105,629
2002 107,239
2001 107,576
Heinz is pretty bad for a modern stadium. How ever it a palace compared to Beaver stadium. I not talking fan atmosphere but facilities.
That would be wonderful, but here in lays the problem:
Senate, House could coalesce around $8B, 3-month transportation bill
Senate GOP leaders have been struggling to complete work on their long-term transportation bill before the August recess in the hope that the House would pass it and send it to the White House. But their Republican counterparts in the House have made it clear they won't be hurried into accepting the Senate measure.
"The House also needs to make its voice heard and put forth its own priorities for such a significant piece of legislation," Rep. Bill Shuster, R-Pa., chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said in a statement.
It has been a decade since Congress last passed a long-term transportation bill even though lawmakers in both parties generally support highway and transit aid. The difficulty has been finding the money to pay for programs in a way that doesn't increase the federal deficit.
For decades, highway and transit programs were paid for with gas tax revenues and other transportation taxes and fees. But the federal 18.4 cents a gallon gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993 while the cost of construction has risen. The gas tax brings in about $35 billion a year for highway programs, but the government is spending about $50 billion. Obama and many lawmakers say even $50 billion is far too little
Last edited:
Agree. Great design except for some of the adornments outside. No issue with renovating Beaver Stadium or replacing it so long as it can be paid for.....in something less than 100 years.
Very true. It's one of the reasons I am an ex-season ticket holder. They proved to me that they don't owe me anything after years of loyalty. But that's a two way street. I don't owe them anything either. And the 6 hours one way drive was getting to be tougher as I close in on 60.
And good concessions make a difference. I don't mind paying a bit more if the food is good. You get, for example, an almost restaurant quality burger at Blue Jacket games for under $10. I'll pay for that no problem. Our soccer team got some local folks with food trucks to do some of the concessions (that took some time to arrange due to politics--as the stadium is on the state fairgrounds, and there were a lot of pols in line). And our local AAA baseball team has wings from Roosters and BBQ from City Barbeque (both well known locally) for a fair price. And "Dime a Dog" nights....
Add to that security. I guess it is needed. But I don't like attending an event where I am made to feel like I am a criminal.
He's no Bud though. "Wait until you see how wide the highway is that I'm naming after myself!"
Last edited:
Yes. That's the Bill Shuster that I was writing about.
It is really not hard to figure out.
People should not act as if it is.
politicians put pork projects in all the time...never can understand why most Americans don't want more high speed rail options, anyone who has ever traveled on them in Japan or Europe would know, this should be the future....not high speed but I have taken the train in twice to Met Life and enjoyed it each time
I never said they average 110-111k per game. My words exactly were "Just a couple years ago, we use to pack 110-111k for a home game." Now we never see that number anymore. From 2000-2010, fans and recruits, would say "to play in front of 110k screaming fans". Now we say 107k.
For me personally, when I describe beaver stadium to outsiders, I still say 110k out of habit and I feel 107k rounds up anyway.
For me personally, when I describe beaver stadium to outsiders, I still say 110k out of habit and I feel 107k rounds up anyway.
Currently, the Beaver is in good structural condition compared to the national overall infrastructure.
Sen. Menendez Letter: Transportation bill ignores Northeast's crisis
This is a transportation bill that ignores the transportation crisis in this country. It does not provide enough money to keep mass transit running, let alone make substantial improvements to our aging infrastructure. This bill does not do enough to advance Gateway and it disregards what we learned after the horrible train crash in Philadelphia by delaying implementation of Positive Train Control, which we know would have prevented the tragedy and saved lives.
Our transportation infrastructure is literally crumbling. Our nation's bridges are dilapidated, our roads falling apart, and Amtrak's rail tunnels under the Hudson River are dangerously nearing the end of their life, stranding commuters, and putting in peril the vitality of the Northeast's regional economy. We have serious problems that require serious solutions that adequately address our pressing transportation infrastructure needs.
We can't do this on the cheap. We need long-term, robust funding to ensure our transportation system is safe and reliable, not a series of Band-aids and a bill that falls painfully short of achieving either.
ROBERT MENENDEZ
U. S. SENATOR FROM NEW JERSEY
Sen. Menendez Letter: Transportation bill ignores Northeast's crisis
This is a transportation bill that ignores the transportation crisis in this country. It does not provide enough money to keep mass transit running, let alone make substantial improvements to our aging infrastructure. This bill does not do enough to advance Gateway and it disregards what we learned after the horrible train crash in Philadelphia by delaying implementation of Positive Train Control, which we know would have prevented the tragedy and saved lives.
Our transportation infrastructure is literally crumbling. Our nation's bridges are dilapidated, our roads falling apart, and Amtrak's rail tunnels under the Hudson River are dangerously nearing the end of their life, stranding commuters, and putting in peril the vitality of the Northeast's regional economy. We have serious problems that require serious solutions that adequately address our pressing transportation infrastructure needs.
We can't do this on the cheap. We need long-term, robust funding to ensure our transportation system is safe and reliable, not a series of Band-aids and a bill that falls painfully short of achieving either.
ROBERT MENENDEZ
U. S. SENATOR FROM NEW JERSEY
When the Board of Mis Trust threw Penn State under the bus, the hope for any of these concerns ended before they even got started. This Board isn't going to do anything to help anyone but themselves.
To the alums, the fans and the team, we can all just go to hell.
Please have a nice day today...
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
To the alums, the fans and the team, we can all just go to hell.
Please have a nice day today...
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
It all goes to back to facilities. The kitchen facilities would need over hauled to really handle a more extensive menu. They also would have to eliminate all the volunteer groups who use it as a fund raiser.
Those games were few and far between. It only happened 6 times and the last time was 6 years ago. IF you win those games will return.
107K happens few and far between. My point is that recruits, marketing, and the media use to say 110K just like we say 107k today.
Not sure why you guys think the troughs are such a big deal. Walls lined with troughs are the most efficient way of handling a large number in a short time. There also is less maintenance than a restroom with a bunch of individual urinals, each piped separately with individual flush valves. With the troughs you essentially have one perforated pipe running along its length supplying a constant flow of flush water and one drain.
You are at a football stadium, not a 5 star restaurant.
Agree that all games being televised and the massive proliferation of sports media and choice that cable TV has provided is a "game-changer"; however, I don't think it really ends there. This changing media environment works to the severe detriment of "Traditional Powers" with large stdiums located in fairly lightly populated, non-urban, non-"Metro Areas" (e.g., quintessential "college towns") where a large portion of their traditional gameday ticket holders are coming from a distance (e.g., +100 miles). It stands to reason that this is the portion of the traditional fan base that will choose to stay home and watch on TV because they can still see the game without losing their entire weekend (e.g., it's "convenient"). The Major Traditional Power teams located in Major Metro Areas such as Austin, Columbus, Detroit, Los Angelas, etc... have a distinct advantage in regards to filling up a stadium without attracting large percentages of fans from long distances. These Metro Areas are all in excess of 1 million people in population so not as hard to attract large numbers from the immediate metro area. They might not have overall larger fan bases nationwide but they do have a likely significant advantage in terms of simple absolute numbers of local fans who would just assume spend the afternoon or evening watching game at local stadium as sitting at home watching it on TV (in this case it's just as convenient and more fun to watch live as to sit at home if you can get a ticket). To some degree, you are witnessing the "professionalization" of the college game.....large market teams are going to have a distinct advantage in regards to local gate revenues most likely.
As long as we privatize the highway system then. One of the things that hurt rail in this country was the construction of the Interstate system. That subsidized the trucking industry at the expense of rail (of course, rail was subsidized back in the day at the expense of canals). When railroads buy diesel fuel these days, part of the taxes they pay on that fuel goes to pay for roads. And property taxes are charged on rail lines, while not being charged on roads.
The point is that *everything* is subsidized. One way or another.
No, they would not. Both the Blue Jackets and the Crew use volunteers to run the stands. And they have better food (at least the Jackets do--the new Crew situation has only been in place for part of the season, so it's too soon to tell).
The university has a wonderful hotel/restaurant management program. Betcha they can figure this out. It could even be part of classes for credit. Talk about getting experience in the real world.
Nationwide arena uses Delaware North Companies Sportservice to run the concession stands. The Crew uses Levy Restaurants and Retail group to mange their concessions. They both use paid workers.
Many people have been fired from jobs. Paterno was fired. Does that make him an idiot? Some people are scapegoated. Some have falling out with higher ups. Steve Jobs was fired from Apple. Do you thing he was an idiot?
Steve Jobs was running that company into the ground when he was fired, even though he wasn't fired. The bot has admitted under oath Paterno was not fired for anything he did. Barbour was fired for performance reasons.
Win and they will come. If we become a perennial top 10 team I suspect we'll have no problem filling the seats. I think what you say is true, but during times of mediocrity.
Texas doesn't even sell out their smaller stadium when they are mediocre, and they are probably the best suited "large market team" to do so since there aren't any competing pro sports in Austin to take away from their attendance.
I'm curious to see what happens with A&M. They made expansion plans while Johnny Football had them in the national title hunt and the SEC was a fresh new thing. Now they aren't expected to do very well on the field. I expect this year attendance will soar due to the novelty of the new stadium but if they continue to be a middle of the pack SEC team I don't know if they'll be able to sell out consistently either. A&M is a good comparison to PSU, they are also in the middle of nowhere and there aren't a lot of major highways in the area. One big difference though is they are less than 2 hours from 2 major cities, Austin and Houston. PSU almost twice as far from Philly or Pittsburgh, and Pittsburgh isn't as big as the Texas cities.
Sandy was "fired" (i.e., moved out of the AD job and encouraged to look elsewhere) primarily because of the embarrassment of having the Academic Progress Rate (or "APR") numbers for the Cal football and basketball teams rank at the very bottom of all Power 5 conferences. This happened just prior to her firing. Imagine what Cal fans felt like knowing that the football team sucked comprehensively, not only on the field (generally a given) but in the classroom, and that our APR rates were lower than schools like Kentucky, Arkansas, Iowa State, and Arizona State. Like Penn State, Cal is not a private school. It's a "sink or swim" kind of academic environment, even for athletes. I get that. But that fact cannot excuse our athletes coming in dead last in the classroom. Sandy actually did a decent job getting the stadium retrofit pushed through. That was not at all the reason why she had to go.
Comparing High Speed rail in Europe and Japan to the US is insane... and here is why.
1. Europe is no where near the size of The USA. The better comparison would be Japan, England, France, Germany, etc to a specific State close in geographic size.
2. In the 1940s, after WWII, the US rail companies started to abandon passenger rail because they could not compete with air travel for long distances, and the US was investing billions on the Eisenhower Interstate System. US rail companies found they were profitable moving freight than passengers, and if there were an accident involving passengers their liability would be sky high.
3. US rail companies are the ones that set the rail priority. Therefore they prioritize higher profit freight vs royalties paid by Amtrak.
4. The US rail system is NOT currently capable of safely transporting passengers at high speed. Amtrak owns the NE Corridor (freight and passenger rail do not share the same tracks), this is why it is the ONLY corridor that is profitable for Amtrak.
For a train to travel from NYC to LA in the time to compete with air travel the cost would be 5 to 6 times that of a standard plane ticket. Do you honestly think someone would pay $5,000 to travel from NYC to LA via rail? Nope.
1. Europe is no where near the size of The USA. The better comparison would be Japan, England, France, Germany, etc to a specific State close in geographic size.
2. In the 1940s, after WWII, the US rail companies started to abandon passenger rail because they could not compete with air travel for long distances, and the US was investing billions on the Eisenhower Interstate System. US rail companies found they were profitable moving freight than passengers, and if there were an accident involving passengers their liability would be sky high.
3. US rail companies are the ones that set the rail priority. Therefore they prioritize higher profit freight vs royalties paid by Amtrak.
4. The US rail system is NOT currently capable of safely transporting passengers at high speed. Amtrak owns the NE Corridor (freight and passenger rail do not share the same tracks), this is why it is the ONLY corridor that is profitable for Amtrak.
For a train to travel from NYC to LA in the time to compete with air travel the cost would be 5 to 6 times that of a standard plane ticket. Do you honestly think someone would pay $5,000 to travel from NYC to LA via rail? Nope.
Again, it depends on the subsidies. Passenger rail worked for a long time, and the railroads were amenable to it, because they also hauled the mail (a subsidy). Then the mail went to trucks. Why? One main reason was because the highways were subsidized. A lot of mail goes by air now. It *is* faster. But again the government subsidizes things like airports and air traffic control (which *does* have to be run by the government, to be fair, due to military aviation's needs--but it is still a subsidy).
As another example, I think that what the government paid to build Denver's airport, for example, would pay the Amtrak subsidy for quite a fair number of years.
Europe is now finding out the challenges of large trucks. Up to the fall of the iron curtain, trucks were far smaller. Now they are standard double-decker US style semis. And the roads are taking a beating with consequent additional costs.
I'm also glad the NE corridor was mentioned. That's a vital piece of US transportation infrastructure. Get rid of Amtrak and the highways and air in the area could simply not compensate--there's just not enough *room* to add anything more.
Much too early to make a definitive statement on how well Barbour is running ICA, but I'm not particularly distressed about her failures at Cal (if they could be wholly pinned to Barbour, which they cannot). I'd much rather have a leader who has experienced a couple failures and learned rather than one who has only sailed smooth seas.
I really have no concerns that the academic performance of our student-athletes will slip. We are already trending in a positive direction there, and Barbour knows academic performance will be scrutinized during her PSU tenure because of her history with Cal football and basketball (the other Cal sports were doing fine with academics).
The jury is out and will be out for a couple more years on her financial management of ICA, so we'll have to wait and see. There are plenty of challenges on the horizon with ICA capital improvements, not just with football.
I really have no concerns that the academic performance of our student-athletes will slip. We are already trending in a positive direction there, and Barbour knows academic performance will be scrutinized during her PSU tenure because of her history with Cal football and basketball (the other Cal sports were doing fine with academics).
The jury is out and will be out for a couple more years on her financial management of ICA, so we'll have to wait and see. There are plenty of challenges on the horizon with ICA capital improvements, not just with football.
kgilbert - you are correct, but our government doesn't have any more room for more subsidies, unless we are going to tax everyone at 100% and then pay people a monthly stipend to survive, and I can tell you we would never get to that point without falling apart as a country.
Well, it's a matter of where we spend our money. Look at how much we spend on defense. Look at how much the next 10 countries spend. Do we really need to spend that much, or would the country be better served investing some of that money in infrastructure? We know infrastructure investments are long term, and they help the economy. They provide jobs you can't outsource. They improve efficiencies for businesses. Infrastructure should be a no brainer.
My point was that *everything* (almost) is subsidized. You are just picking which ones you like.
But we are waaaay OT here, so I'll stop.
UH OH. Reality rears it's ugly head on the BWI board. LOL.
Thanks for the post. Nice to hear from somebody who we can depend on and who was living it.
Similar threads
