The Future of Beaver Stadium

[Evan Ceg]

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...what-is-the-future-of-beaver-stadium,1464933/

I can't see the financial justification for building a new stadium.

With the prices for a game weekend in State College and the increasing comfort of watching games on your home theater, sellouts every game are not realistic going forward, even if we're Top 10. I would support reducing seating capacity by installing chair back seats in the $600 STEP sections (EF, EE, ED and EEU; WF, WE, WD and WEU).

With increasing concern over injury/concussion issues, most importantly from parents, the present is likely the apex of American football, college and pro.

 

[jennjeffjoe]

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...what-is-the-future-of-beaver-stadium,1464933/

I can't see the financial justification for building a new stadium.

With the prices for a game weekend in State College and the increasing comfort of watching games on your home theater, sellouts every game are not realistic going forward, even if we're Top 10. I would support reducing seating capacity by installing chair back seats in the $600 STEP sections (EF, EE, ED and EEU; WF, WE, WD and WEU).

With increasing concern over injury/concussion issues, most importantly from parents, the present is likely the apex of American football, college and pro.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...what-is-the-future-of-beaver-stadium,1464933/

I can't see the financial justification for building a new stadium.

With the prices for a game weekend in State College and the increasing comfort of watching games on your home theater, sellouts every game are not realistic going forward, even if we're Top 10. I would support reducing seating capacity by installing chair back seats in the $600 STEP sections (EF, EE, ED and EEU; WF, WE, WD and WEU).

With increasing concern over injury/concussion issues, most importantly from parents, the present is likely the apex of American football, college and pro.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...what-is-the-future-of-beaver-stadium,1464933/

I can't see the financial justification for building a new stadium.

With the prices for a game weekend in State College and the increasing comfort of watching games on your home theater, sellouts every game are not realistic going forward, even if we're Top 10. I would support reducing seating capacity by installing chair back seats in the $600 STEP sections (EF, EE, ED and EEU; WF, WE, WD and WEU).

With increasing concern over injury/concussion issues, most importantly from parents, the present is likely the apex of American football, college and pro.

 

[step.eng69]

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...what-is-the-future-of-beaver-stadium,1464933/

I can't see the financial justification for building a new stadium.

With the prices for a game weekend in State College and the increasing comfort of watching games on your home theater, sellouts every game are not realistic going forward, even if we're Top 10. I would support reducing seating capacity by installing chair back seats in the $600 STEP sections (EF, EE, ED and EEU; WF, WE, WD and WEU).

With increasing concern over injury/concussion issues, most importantly from parents, the present is likely the apex of American football, college and pro.

Interesting post concerning the Beav Evan. Thanks

If the age of the average car on American roads is now at an all-time record, close to 11 years old, according to the latest statistics from the R.L. Polk Co., how is he going to anti-up a substantial increase in the STEP program.

 

[jennjeffjoe]

All good points. The era of behemoth stadiums filled to capacity is probably nearing the end.

The tv and media revenues streams will drive financial decisions.

 

[PSU_Nut]

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...what-is-the-future-of-beaver-stadium,1464933/

I can't see the financial justification for building a new stadium.

With the prices for a game weekend in State College and the increasing comfort of watching games on your home theater, sellouts every game are not realistic going forward, even if we're Top 10. I would support reducing seating capacity by installing chair back seats in the $600 STEP sections (EF, EE, ED and EEU; WF, WE, WD and WEU).

With increasing concern over injury/concussion issues, most importantly from parents, the present is likely the apex of American football, college and pro.

It is a maintenance issue. The cost of maintaining such an old facility that exposed to the elements is very expensive. I think currently they are spending 3-5 million per year to maintain it with out factoring in renovations. The renovations needed in the facility are numerous that it just may be cheaper to build new. The bathrooms still have troughs...when was the last time you saw that? Installing chair backs in those sections doesn't solve the infrastructure problem with the facility. I also believe there not enough room in the current risers to support chair backs.

I think the concussion issue is over hyped by the media. There will still be plenty of talent and people willing to play.

If Pegula is willing to put up $100 million for ice hockey who knows how much he would pay to have Pegula Stadium.

 

[91Joe95]

Suddenly that $300MM the bot pissed away with their Sandusky BS doesn't seem so "manageable."

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

http://www.statecollege.com/news/co...what-is-the-future-of-beaver-stadium,1464933/

I can't see the financial justification for building a new stadium.

With the prices for a game weekend in State College and the increasing comfort of watching games on your home theater, sellouts every game are not realistic going forward, even if we're Top 10. I would support reducing seating capacity by installing chair back seats in the $600 STEP sections (EF, EE, ED and EEU; WF, WE, WD and WEU).

With increasing concern over injury/concussion issues, most importantly from parents, the present is likely the apex of American football, college and pro.

We talked about this recently. Something is gonna give, eventually....and the Beav is gonna be replaced or partially demolished and rebuilt. There can be no doubt about it. And, it is a waste of time to believe otherwise.

I like your seatback idea because, in my view, those benches are so 1920s. We are coming up on 2020.

However, and I am not an engineer, but just eyeballing it makes me think that there is just not enough room in most or all of the old rows to install modern-style plastic seats. We all know that there is not enough legroom in there as it is, and the only salvation to that is poking your knees in open spots between people if you are lucky. Now imagine a wall of plastic seatbacks up against your knees. That would be the real waste of money to install.

 

[Art]

Barbour at the helm of a major stadium project should scare the hell out of anyone, especially given the debacle she engineered at Cal, which Poorman conveniently sidesteps.

 

[lionroar88]

Well steel doesn't last forever, and with much of the steel that supports Beaver Stadium aging well over 100 years... I think age justifies the cost.

I would love to see a modern facility that pays tribute to the existing structure. They could build a new 'bowl' that has a 60 ft deep concourse around the 'brim'. Then build an upper-deck that cantilevers over the 'bowl', maybe 20 feet, with the press box and suites under the upper deck. Behind the suite/press box level, you would have a 'private' concourse, and above that an upper-deck concourse. I would then have an open roof that extends out over the upper-deck by 30 feet. The entire 'bowl' would be seat backs, except the area above the 'player tunnel' which would be bench seating for The Blue Band, and the NW section were I would move the students to (a covered tunnel for the opponents).

The outside would be 'skinned' to compliment Metler Field and BJC.

Beaver - Paterno Field at [naming rights] Stadium.

 

[step.eng69]

Barbour at the helm of a major stadium project should scare the hell out of anyone, especially given the debacle she engineered at Cal, which Poorman conveniently sidesteps.

Thank you so much Art....that was my first thought when I read the article..."BARBOUR"

 

[johnsonguy45]

It's a thought provoking article.

I too believe we've reached the zenith of college football as we know it.

Because of expense, HDTVs, etc.....the number of butts in the seats are going to go down. People need to have a "want" to go the stadium.

Put a good product on the field in a good, comfortable stadium and then you'll get a bunch of people there. Beaver Stadium needs some major help, and it's not exactly comfortable. Chairbacks are an interesting idea for sure....but that doesn't solve the bathroom issues.

 

[Obliviax]

I don't see major changes in our lifetimes. As long as 90,000+ pack the place, nothing is going to change unless there is a major structural problem that cannot be bandaided.

The local CLE baseball stadium is an interesting story. This year, they put a ton of money into renovations making zones for specific interest groups. For example, they built several terraces (with been vending machines) to create a place for people to congregate. Basically, they are trying to create a "club" for meeting and greeting. They have family zones, bleacher-creature zones, high priced business zones, private corporate club rooms and these terraces. It has taken out volume seats but is a better experience for a smaller number of people. Basically, they've decide less people will attend but they want to get more of those people's money (available beer, high priced foods, pay for access to the field, etc.).

I suspect this is the way of the future in pro sports (I see so many games on TV with half full stadiums).

But I don't see this at the Beave as long as people still fill the seats. I can see high end food areas and places outside the stadium to capture more game-weekend revenues. But I don't see much changing inside the bowl.

 

[bjf1984]

Barbour at the helm of a major stadium project should scare the hell out of anyone, especially given the debacle she engineered at Cal, which Poorman conveniently sidesteps.

^^^ DING DING DING!!!! ^^^

Maybe a coupla' more Associate AD's with some experience/competence in finances would be in order.......seriously.

 

[mn78psu83]

Barbour at the helm of a major stadium project should scare the hell out of anyone, especially given the debacle she engineered at Cal, which Poorman conveniently sidesteps.

Exciting times!

 

[manatree]

Poorman did a poor job of researching this article. The "New Beaver Field" of 1909 had wood bleachers, some of which were part of the 1893 "Old Beaver Field" that were moved up the hill from the original location.

There was no steel construction until the 1935 stadium designed by Charles Klauder. The stadium was expanded again in 1948-49 with the addition of the north stands.

Bottom line is that there is no 1909 structure still part of the current stadium.

 

[step.eng69]

Barbour at the helm of a major stadium project should scare the hell out of anyone, especially given the debacle she engineered at Cal, which Poorman conveniently sidesteps.

Will the stadium renovations be the end of Barbour? If so, we can hire her to do dynamic testing of the proposed seating.

 

[johnsonguy45]

I don't see major changes in our lifetimes. As long as 90,000+ pack the place, nothing is going to change unless there is a major structural problem that cannot be bandaided.

The local CLE baseball stadium is an interesting story. This year, they put a ton of money into renovations making zones for specific interest groups. For example, they built several terraces (with been vending machines) to create a place for people to congregate. Basically, they are trying to create a "club" for meeting and greeting. They have family zones, bleacher-creature zones, high priced business zones, private corporate club rooms and these terraces. It has taken out volume seats but is a better experience for a smaller number of people. Basically, they've decide less people will attend but they want to get more of those people's money (available beer, high priced foods, pay for access to the field, etc.).

I suspect this is the way of the future in pro sports (I see so many games on TV with half full stadiums).

But I don't see this at the Beave as long as people still fill the seats. I can see high end food areas and places outside the stadium to capture more game-weekend revenues. But I don't see much changing inside the bowl.

Sounds like CLE is an interesting stadium. I "get" what they're trying to do, but something like that isn't for me. I'm more of a fan of one giant stadium where everyone is one--not segregated into parts.

Another issue for Beaver Stadium is WiFi and cellular service. VZW has gotten better in recent years, but it still has a lot of trouble on game day.

Couple that with no real food options, terrible bathrooms that are few in number, hugely expensive lodging, wretched home game scheduling, STEP and our illustrious BOT......it's no wonder why attendance is severely lacking.

 

[androcles]

...jes a suggestion...

...we could probably dismantle and sell the upper sidelines of the stadium to Pitt ...the old 28,000 seat part that we moved from adjacent to Rec Hall many decades ago...

...that would be more then large enough for their usual game day...

...they could put it in Schenley Park and everyone could walk to the games...

...oh, well...

 

[Obliviax]

Sounds like CLE is an interesting stadium. I "get" what they're trying to do, but something like that isn't for me. I'm more of a fan of one giant stadium where everyone is one--not segregated into parts.

Another issue for Beaver Stadium is WiFi and cellular service. VZW has gotten better in recent years, but it still has a lot of trouble on game day.

Couple that with no real food options, terrible bathrooms that are few in number, hugely expensive lodging, wretched home game scheduling, STEP and our illustrious BOT......it's no wonder why attendance is severely lacking.

I like your ideas. I can see the areas under the stadium being renovated to create a more fan-friendly look with interaction areas (food, museums, former player meet and greets, whatever). Bathrooms are a problem.

Pro games, especially baseball, are different. But I do understand the notion of less seats and more "great event" mindset. I've always thought that PSU was missing a big opportunity to capitalize in 110,000 people being packed into a small area for a day. With traffic issues, no reason to NOT build something in there for game-day experiences. Even if it is temporary structures, like tents.

 

[Bushwood CC]

Poorman did a poor job of researching this article. The "New Beaver Field" of 1909 had wood bleachers, some of which were part of the 1893 "Old Beaver Field" that were moved up the hill from the original location.

There was no steel construction until the 1935 stadium designed by Charles Klauder. The stadium was expanded again in 1948-49 with the addition of the north stands.

Bottom line is that there is no 1909 structure still part of the current stadium.

Exactly, any true PSU fan knows that the current Beaver Stadium (which has undergone multiple expansions and major renovations) is nowhere close to the structural age this dimwit writer is attempting to claim. Just because they maintained the same name for Stadium built in the mid-1930s does not make it the same stadium that dates back to the turn of the 20th Century.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Barbour at the helm of a major stadium project should scare the hell out of anyone, especially given the debacle she engineered at Cal, which Poorman conveniently sidesteps.

Of course, the stadium out there was built on a fault line...from what I have been told. And, that was certainly ALL HER FAULT.

Art, seriously, why don't you just go in there and take over the whole managment of the University?

Warning: People like you will make fun of you relentlessly, whether deservedly or not. Probably so, though.

 

[PSU_Nut]

I don't see major changes in our lifetimes. As long as 90,000+ pack the place, nothing is going to change unless there is a major structural problem that cannot be bandaided.

The problem is sometimes those band aids become more expensive then the debt service on a new facility. The stadium is a dump right now outside of a few areas. Let be honest the bottom concourse and north endzone upper concourses are simply embarrassing. The press box is pathetic. The several million they are spending on that is just to keep it operational. It getting to the point they have to do a major overhaul or tear it down. They didn't replace the scoreboards for show...they had to replace them because they simply would not work any more.

 

[LundyPSU]

Guess my contract for Club Seats will be increasing next year.....

 

[PSU_Nut]

Of course, the stadium out there was built on a fault line...from what I have been told. And, that was certainly ALL HER FAULT.

Art, seriously, why don't you just go in there and take over the whole managment of the University?

Warning: People like you will make fun of you relentlessly, whether deservedly or not. Probably so, though.

The project was a major expense because of that. They had no choice but to renovate or move. Cal situation is completely different then Penn State. I love how posters love to call people like Barbour idiots when they haven't achieved a fraction in their career field as she has.

 

[psu00]

I like your ideas. I can see the areas under the stadium being renovated to create a more fan-friendly look with interaction areas (food, museums, former player meet and greets, whatever). Bathrooms are a problem.

Pro games, especially baseball, are different. But I do understand the notion of less seats and more "great event" mindset. I've always thought that PSU was missing a big opportunity to capitalize in 110,000 people being packed into a small area for a day. With traffic issues, no reason to NOT build something in there for game-day experiences. Even if it is temporary structures, like tents.

Another issue in terms of attendance is the travel nightmare (especially for leaving after night games). Just a wild idea- but I always thought that if PSU and the state teamed up to get a train station over by the stadium that could ease some of the travel mess for many (and increase attendance) with game day trains coming up from Harrisburg, Philly, Pittsburgh etc.

 

[NittPicker]

The athletics office had become complacent. A loyal fanbase was filling the stadium so there was no incentive for them to improve anything. That's why they rammed STEP down our throats because they thought the loyal fans would pony up the money because that's what they'd always done. To say the university took the fans for granted is a gross understatement. Now, like at most other universities, attendance is dipping because most games are being televised. It's finally dawning on the athletics office that the fans don't owe the university anything. The university needs to find ways to show the fans that watching a game in person can be as fun and convenient as watching on television. Improve concessions since not everyone tailgates. Improve the flow of traffic before and after the game. Improve seating even if it means reducing capacity by a couple thousand. View ticket holders as customers who should be treated well instead of cattle who need to be herded from place to place. The list goes on.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Exactly, any true PSU fan knows that the current Beaver Stadium (which has undergone multiple expansions and major renovations) is nowhere close to the structural age this dimwit writer is attempting to claim. Just because they maintained the same name for Stadium built in the mid-1930s does not make it the same stadium that dates back to the turn of the 20th Century.

Some of the steel does date back to 1939. Most of the sideline lower level does. The lower north end zone date back to 1949 along with the press box. So most of the lower level is between 66-76 years old. The only NFL stadium older is Soldier field which was almost completely rebuilt and forced them to relocate for a year. They did a $810 million (in 2015 dollars) renovation. So unless they want to throw millions at a renovation they may need to look at building a new one.

 

[Raffycorn]

Another issue in terms of attendance is the travel nightmare (especially for leaving after night games). Just a wild idea- but I always thought that if PSU and the state teamed up to get a train station over by the stadium that could ease some of the travel mess for many (and increase attendance) with game day trains coming up from Harrisburg, Philly, Pittsburgh etc.

AMTRAK is actually studying the feasibility of establishing a route from Tyrone to State College - it's a rather intensive endeavor to construct rail lines through that part of the state, and the stretch from Tyrone to State College - roughly parallel to I-99 - is really the only one that would be feasible. The speed of the trains, too, would likely still mean that a rider would arrive on Friday night and leave on Sunday for return trips to Philly/Harrisburg or Pittsburgh.

 

[psu00]

The athletics office had become complacent. A loyal fanbase was filling the stadium so there was no incentive for them to improve anything. That's why they rammed STEP down our throats because they thought the loyal fans would pony up the money because that's what they'd always done. To say the university took the fans for granted is a gross understatement. Now, like at most other universities, attendance is dipping because most games are being televised. It's finally dawning on the athletics office that the fans don't owe the university anything. The university needs to find ways to show the fans that watching a game in person can be as fun and convenient as watching on television. Improve concessions since not everyone tailgates. Improve the flow of traffic before and after the game. Improve seating even if it means reducing capacity by a couple thousand. View ticket holders as customers who should be treated well instead of cattle who need to be herded from place to place. The list goes on.

You're asking a lot of an athletic department that was repeatedly asked to run scores of other games on the ribbon boards and, despite promising to do so, can't even accomplish that feat. Then there's the 'upgraded' wifi where no one can connect to it on gameday.

 

[Art]

Of course, the stadium out there was built on a fault line...from what I have been told. And, that was certainly ALL HER FAULT.

Art, seriously, why don't you just go in there and take over the whole managment of the University?

Warning: People like you will make fun of you relentlessly, whether deservedly or not. Probably so, though.

I'm fully aware that safety issues predicated on the the Hayward Fault running through Cal's campus mandated renovations to Memorial Field (and other campus structures). For that Barbour is blameless. She is, however, culpable for adding well over $200mm in costs for entirely optional construction and paying about $8mm in fees for the development of a financing plan that had no hope of getting off the ground.

And if you're suggesting that I could run the AD better than Barbour, you're on the right track.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Another issue in terms of attendance is the travel nightmare (especially for leaving after night games). Just a wild idea- but I always thought that if PSU and the state teamed up to get a train station over by the stadium that could ease some of the travel mess for many (and increase attendance) with game day trains coming up from Harrisburg, Philly, Pittsburgh etc.

Unfortunately would be to costly to extend the rail line for 7 Saturdays a year. Unfortunately the closest Amtrack line is in Tyrone. Even using the NS lines the closest out by the mall would cost 100's of millions to extend to the stadium

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Unfortunately would be to costly to extend the rail line for 7 Saturdays a year. Unfortunately the closest Amtrack line is in Tyrone. Even using the NS lines the closest out by the mall would cost 100's of millions to extend to the stadium

Yes, not for 7 days.

But, I think they have 365 in mind. Commuter rail that does not currently exist.

 

[NittPicker]

Another issue in terms of attendance is the travel nightmare (especially for leaving after night games). Just a wild idea- but I always thought that if PSU and the state teamed up to get a train station over by the stadium that could ease some of the travel mess for many (and increase attendance) with game day trains coming up from Harrisburg, Philly, Pittsburgh etc.

That would be great but I doubt anyone would be willing to fund a multimillion dollar project would only be used seven times a year. WVU has a campus rail-type of system and it makes sense for them since their campus locations are somewhat scattered. Even though University Park is huge it is all in one place. A similar people mover system could MAYBE be justified since the campus is growing beyond the point where walking across campus and arriving for your next class on time is feasible. One terminus could be west of Atherton and the other could be at Beaver Stadium or beyond. It would make moving people much more efficient both on games days and when classes are in session. Yeah, I know. It will never happen but not much else in this thread will happen either.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

That would be great but I doubt anyone would be willing to fund a multimillion dollar project would only be used seven times a year. WVU has a campus rail-type of system and it makes sense for them since their campus locations are somewhat scattered. Even though University Park is huge it is all in one place. A similar people mover system could MAYBE be justified since the campus is growing beyond the point where walking across campus and arriving for your next class on time is feasible. One terminus could be west of Atherton and the other could be at Beaver Stadium or beyond. It would make moving people much more efficient both on games days and when classes are in session. Yeah, I know. It will never happen but not much else in this thread will happen either.

Well, you need to keep in mind what we are talking about here...and who: Bill Shuster.

That is the one and only person in the entire world who needs to be interested in funding it.

 

[psu00]

Unfortunately would be to costly to extend the rail line for 7 Saturdays a year. Unfortunately the closest Amtrack line is in Tyrone. Even using the NS lines the closest out by the mall would cost 100's of millions to extend to the stadium

Just to be clear- I meant more as train service to State College that could also be used on game days (as opposed to building just for 7 football Saturday's). If it's not feasible due to cost/ need for the town all year long then it shouldn't be done. I've just seen how some schools use these means (much like boat service to games at Washington) that help with travel issues (no worries about driving, traffic, parking, and your home in 1.5 hours no matter what 322 looks like, etc).

 

[NittPicker]

You're asking a lot of an athletic department that was repeatedly asked to run scores of other games on the ribbon boards and, despite promising to do so, can't even accomplish that feat. Then there's the 'upgraded' wifi where no one can connect to it on gameday.

C'mon. Be realistic. Showing scores would interfere with the hot dog advertisements.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Yes, not for 7 days.

But, I think they have 365 in mind. Commuter rail that does not currently exist.

They are not going to add a spur line that add close an hour travel time to the Pittsburgh-Philadelphia line to serve a community of 40,000 which may have a daily ridership in the hundreds.

 

[johnsonguy45]

The athletics office had become complacent. A loyal fanbase was filling the stadium so there was no incentive for them to improve anything. That's why they rammed STEP down our throats because they thought the loyal fans would pony up the money because that's what they'd always done. To say the university took the fans for granted is a gross understatement. Now, like at most other universities, attendance is dipping because most games are being televised. It's finally dawning on the athletics office that the fans don't owe the university anything. The university needs to find ways to show the fans that watching a game in person can be as fun and convenient as watching on television. Improve concessions since not everyone tailgates. Improve the flow of traffic before and after the game. Improve seating even if it means reducing capacity by a couple thousand. View ticket holders as customers who should be treated well instead of cattle who need to be herded from place to place. The list goes on.

^^^Great post.

This pretty much sums up the actions of the department during the past 10+ years.

 

[NelsonMunce]

Another issue in terms of attendance is the travel nightmare (especially for leaving after night games). Just a wild idea- but I always thought that if PSU and the state teamed up to get a train station over by the stadium that could ease some of the travel mess for many (and increase attendance) with game day trains coming up from Harrisburg, Philly, Pittsburgh etc.

AMTRAK goes as close as Lewistown. Considering geography, I can 't imagine the cost of making an extension to State College. Also, there would be negligible ridership during the rest of the year. I'm no train expert, but even here in SEPA, they've been talking for years about extending SEPTA trains along the 422 corridor to Reading…the cost is unbelievably prohibitive, and even w/ all the population in Philly's surrounding counties, and Berks Co. , the studies don't support any huge bump in ridership from Reading to Philly .

 

[NelsonMunce]

AMTRAK is actually studying the feasibility of establishing a route from Tyrone to State College - it's a rather intensive endeavor to construct rail lines through that part of the state, and the stretch from Tyrone to State College - roughly parallel to I-99 - is really the only one that would be feasible. The speed of the trains, too, would likely still mean that a rider would arrive on Friday night and leave on Sunday for return trips to Philly/Harrisburg or Pittsburgh.

I forgot about the Tyrone AMTRAK station….my bad.