Needed time with her brother after my fathers passing. Got to ask tho going in and out of Pittsburgh, why are the tunnels always backed up? I know the outbound, the squarel hill merges 3 lanes into 2, but if nobody can maintain their speed.
OT: picked my mom up at the airport tonight..
- Thread starter PennStateNate
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Inbound...too many onramps entering the highway.
Outbound....you got it.
However, the engineers/experts say that it is at least a psychological issue where drivers are just instinctively slowing.
The vast majority of people don't know how to drive. I've actually met people who are terrified to drive through tunnels, and some refuse to. They slow down for some reason when entering the tunnel, and those break taps cause backups. It's a covered road that is always dry, and there are no cops... I better slow down!
Just like sand through an hour glass. If you restrict either what comes in or what goes out, all the sand slows or stops at the neck. Coming in, you have so many streets, stop lights and parking places that all cause a slow down. Just not enough lanes to cover the traffic but remember, our State and Federal governments put millions into roads like the Mon-Fayette expressway for economic hope, not traffic justification. Millions of $$$$$$$$ on almost unused concrete makes great traffic planning.
Speaking of highway money, I recall reading there is a plan to build a highway which would more or less bypass Squirrel Hill tunnel to the south and allow motorist to avoid the tunnel. I believe it is part of the final master plan for the Mon-Fayette expressway. Of course it will cost a lot of money and won't be built in our lifetimes but it's fun to dream.
Nitt, that is the only portion of the plan that has an actual financial payback yet they have not built it. Way too much politics involved in the entire project. They should have built that portion of the highway first and then let the next go according to financial justification rather than economic hope that may never be achieved. $$$$$$$$$$ spent on economic hope is like playing the lottery. Everyone hopes to win the lottery but very few actually do. Yet here, the $$$$ are spent and may never achieve any kind of financial payback. They should have installed runway lights on various portions for use as local airports.
As somebody who is from western Pennsylvania, I can tell you that it's the fact that drivers are simply idiots who think the lanes magically shrink inside of a tunnel. People really just slow down.
The Squirrel Hill, Ft Pitt, and Liberty Tunnels were originally designed to have more lanes. Squirrel Hill and Liberty Tunnels were both supposed to be three lanes each direction and Ft Pitt was supposed to be four lanes each direction. The problem was it took too long from initial planning to project start and the costs were too high to build them as originally specified. They were also supposed to be wide enough for a 12 ft shoulder on the right side and 4 ft 'buffer' on the left. I've seen the original artist renderings in one of the buildings at Beaver Campus. Really sad that they weren't built as designed because it would have made all the difference in moving traffic.
All of us Pittsburghers can tell you what everyone has said above: people just slow down in those damned tunnels. And it's not just tunnels, either. If there is an area of construction on the Parkway that narrows the lanes a bit, that will also slow down people and make traffic nearly stop. It's very frustrating. It's almost like some people require 50ft wide driving lanes in order to drive the speed limit.
And regrettably, that portion of the Mon Valley Expressway project that bypasses the Squirrel Hill tunnels will never get built, unless there is a governor who is from that end of the county. It's just too expensive and is nobody's priority.
And regrettably, that portion of the Mon Valley Expressway project that bypasses the Squirrel Hill tunnels will never get built, unless there is a governor who is from that end of the county. It's just too expensive and is nobody's priority.
Speaking as a native of the area, If it's any evening the reason is probably opera and symphony traffic.
Agree wholeheartedly. The cultural traffic around here can be murder. There is just so much to do almost every night, after all.
I thought about getting Pitt season tickets, I had an extra $99 laying around. But then I started looking at the cultural calendar. I just HAVE to visit the museums on Thursday nights, and that is when Pitt plays most of their football games. Also there are Steeler's games on some Sundays, not sure what that has to do with anything, just pointing that out.
Being from the South Hills of Pittsburgh, I can only comment on Fort Pitt and Liberty Tunnels.
Fort Pitt Tunnel is limited by the Fort Pitt Bridge width. They dedicated two lanes of the inbound to the merging ramp from West Carson street and two lanes to the tunnel traffic. The real problem is the presence of the Banksville Road on ramp with the Route 51 exits so close to the inbound tunnel. That 1/4 mile of roadway looks like the demolition derby nearly 16 hours of each day.
Liberty Tubes are a traffic disaster with red light intersections at each end. Improvements have been made at the south end to eliminate left turns from the tunnel to Route 51 southbound, but the traffic volume exceeds any capacity of the roads.
Last week, I drove through Indianapolis - what a difference, but then you don't see hills, rivers and any other assorted barriers to roadway construction presented by the western PA topography.
Sorry for the length of this post.
Fort Pitt Tunnel is limited by the Fort Pitt Bridge width. They dedicated two lanes of the inbound to the merging ramp from West Carson street and two lanes to the tunnel traffic. The real problem is the presence of the Banksville Road on ramp with the Route 51 exits so close to the inbound tunnel. That 1/4 mile of roadway looks like the demolition derby nearly 16 hours of each day.
Liberty Tubes are a traffic disaster with red light intersections at each end. Improvements have been made at the south end to eliminate left turns from the tunnel to Route 51 southbound, but the traffic volume exceeds any capacity of the roads.
Last week, I drove through Indianapolis - what a difference, but then you don't see hills, rivers and any other assorted barriers to roadway construction presented by the western PA topography.
Sorry for the length of this post.
On a related topic of traffic in Pittsburgh, the plans for the original East Street Valley Expressway (aka I279 North) were for 3 or 4 lanes in each direction. Memory tells me that a couple of years before they broke ground, the plans had been revised to only have one lane in each direction.
Fortunately, somebody woke up.
Now the development out in southern Butler County has added significantly to what had been a pretty nice commute (my brother-in-law tells me).
I equate highway systems to sewer lines. The stuff flows where the capacity is. Bernoulli (?) equation.
Fortunately, somebody woke up.
Now the development out in southern Butler County has added significantly to what had been a pretty nice commute (my brother-in-law tells me).
I equate highway systems to sewer lines. The stuff flows where the capacity is. Bernoulli (?) equation.
More important than Pittsburgh traffic, I hope you and family are coping well after your father's passing.
God bless.
Growing up in Western PA, we were always told that it was the tunnel monsters that slowed everybody down. Was this not really the case?
Massive numbers of motorists flock to the fabulous variety of cultural events available in the 'burgh except for Sundays when the Steelers are at home. The people stuck in those tunnels are the same ones who managed to miss every Pitt home game in the last 20 years. Too much cultural saturation.
I don't even live in Pittsburgh but have been there enough to know why traffic slows down when it comes to the Fort Pitt Tunnels coming into the city. Why locals think it's just dumb drivers braking in the tunnel is beyond me. It's not what is in the tunnels that slows people down, it's a culmination of things you run into after you exit the tunnels (going into the city) that slows traffic down.
First, you have to assume that not everyone driving through those tunnels knows what to expect upon exiting them. If you've never been through the tunnels, more likely than not you simply expect to see straight road ahead once you come out. Not the case.
First, upon exiting the tunnel, you have a spectacular view of the city that is impressive regardless of how many times you've seen it. Second, you have the length of the Fort Pitt Bridge to figure out if you need to be in the right lanes to got on 376 East, the middle lanes to head into downtown, or the left lanes to head over the Allegheny and onto 279.
Put any first timer in the situation and they are bound to slow down to process what is going on. All it takes is one person doing that during any significant traffic to back it up for miles. It really is as simple as that.
That doesn't explain the Squirrel hill tunnel, where the traffic is worse. When you exit, there is no view of the city, there is no crazy traffic pattern. In fact, all the traffic suddenly disappears. It's exactly like people who slow down to see an accident in the other direction, traffic backs ups behind them and miraculously clears after the accident. Traffic trickles out of those tunnels due to the slowing down in the tunnels, there is plenty of time and space to make whatever adjustment you need to after the exit. Since traffic is slow long before it exits the tunnel, what you propose literally has almost zero impact.
You make a very good point about what a first timer (or maybe even a tenth timer) sees when they get through the inbound Fort Pitt Tunnel. I'm not quite sure how much signage exists before you enter the tunnel that prepares the driver for a lane change - I never really see the signs because I know where I need to be.
Now that the roof has been raised, maybe the next step would be to install some lit signs inside the tunnel to advise drivers about what awaits them ... wouldn't help much because you can't change lanes in the tunnel.
