Free or Folk

[Diego Badman]

I am curious as to fan's preferences.

I, personally, greatly prefer Folk over Free. I also might well be in the minority in thinking an NCAA individual title is a bigger deal in the USA wrestling community than an Olympic title. I don't think many wrestlers would agree with me since the better wrestlers gravitate toward the freestyle tournaments.

I'm interested in knowing other's thoughts.

 

[lockhavenlion3]

folk. as to which is a bigger deal, the olympics are an every 4 year event where you are measured against the world. i would think that is the ultimate in your sport. tbs, ncaa titles are nothing to sneeze at.

 

[dicemen99]

I would think that most here will favor folk because that is what we have grown up with.

I do, but if I really look at it I'm pretty sure I would probably favor free if I had equal exposure to both. The freestyle product before the "ball grab" era and after.

It packs more action into a tighter time period. The flurries make it more unpredictable. The moves are bigger. The pace of tournaments (and dual matches if it was adopted here) are much quicker. It's just a more exciting product if you don't have a bias.

 

[El-Jefe]

Folk, but I might lean free if the exposure rule changed to allow only one exposure per hold. Ending a match by rolling 4x consecutively -- without ever putting the opponent in even minimal danger of being pinned -- is counter to the goal of pinning opponents. Often the points are awarded on momentum. This is idiotic and a real turn-off for me.

Great example was David Taylor's TF win over Andrew Howe last year. Takedown on a failed head pinch (OK), straight into a trapped-arm gut wrench for 2 (OK), and keep rolling 3 more times to end the match (ugh). Howe was never close to being pinned. I have no problem with the first exposure, but the continuation points ... ugh. Taylor was better on that day but did not truly demonstrate TF-level superiority -- he might have, except the scoring system denied him that opportunity.

The folk rule, where you don't get NF points until you release the hold, is far better.

I might relax this stance if the TF criterion were broadened to 15 or even 20 points, so that a single roll doesn't end the match. IMO 10 points is too tight if continuation exposures are allowed.

 

[dicemen99]

Folk, but I might lean free if the exposure rule changed to allow only one exposure per hold. Ending a match by rolling 4x consecutively -- without ever putting the opponent in even minimal danger of being pinned -- is counter to the goal of pinning opponents. Often the points are awarded on momentum. This is idiotic and a real turn-off for me.

Great example was David Taylor's TF win over Andrew Howe last year. Takedown on a failed head pinch (OK), straight into a trapped-arm gut wrench for 2 (OK), and keep rolling 3 more times to end the match (ugh). Howe was never close to being pinned. I have no problem with the first exposure, but the continuation points ... ugh. Taylor was better on that day but did not truly demonstrate TF-level superiority -- he might have, except the scoring system denied him that opportunity.

The folk rule, where you don't get NF points until you release the hold, is far better.

I might relax this stance if the TF criterion were broadened to 15 or even 20 points, so that a single roll doesn't end the match. IMO 10 points is too tight if continuation exposures are allowed.

Originally this was the stance I took also, but have recently gotten off of it. Guess it depends on your point of view. From a purists standpoint you're right.

But really what's the difference between getting a trap arm in free or hitting a headlock in folk (and getting a tight enough trap arm and control enough to execute 4 turns is difficult). Quick end to a match, doesn't demonstrate technically superiority. More common with higher level athletes in free, which is why it can be a little more unpredictable in results. Which isn't such a bad thing for the spectator. Upsets are what make sports interesting and exciting to watch. The "wow, what happened there?"

Not exactly the point of view I'd want to take as a competitor, but now as a spectator who no longer has any kids in the game, well, perspective changes.

 

[manmythlegend1]

Folk all day long..much of that exposure stuff seems cheezy to me. especially the defensive exposures, like what Reeder was doing to Ruth in that match seemed to me as Reeder was exposing his own back as much as exposing Ruth's. Seems weird to me.

Edit--I do believe that a Hybrid of the two would be best though..restarts should happen more often in folk, No escape point for letting people up or choosing neutral in restart. Push out points?, more stall calls..folk could be improved

 

[psualt]

Folk. I have a hard time appreciating the exposure points awarded in free that have no element of putting the wrestler in danger. Could use a lot more stalling called in folk IMO.

 

[psualt]

But really what's the difference between getting a trap arm in free or hitting a headlock in folk (and getting a tight enough trap arm and control enough to execute 4 turns is difficult).

I don't see the comparison here. The difference is the awarding of multiple points on basically one hold where the wrestler hasnt been put in danger. At least with the headlock to finish the match you have to deck the guy. No TF by rolling him through 4x.

 

[dicemen99]

Until about 1988 Folk had pretty much the same criteria for exposure.

We are talking about match termination here, no matter how it happens. My point of view is that the compressed wrestling is probably a better product.

i realize that most of us on here are content to sit and watch wrestling for 10 hours a day and 30 minute matches are exciting to us. As I said, I prefer to watch folk all day long. I'm ok with watching a guy ride the crap out of another guy and can appreciate it.

But if I didn't grow here, I'd probably think US folk was akin to beach wrestling or something.

 

[El-Jefe]

Actually ... the headlock satisfies the entire goal of the sport: to pin your opponent.

The tech fall was initially wrestling's way of preventing undue humiliation. PA adopted it in the 1984-85 season -- maybe a year or two after softball's so-called "10-run embarrassment rule" began. At the time, a number of HS wrestlers were merely playing takedown tournament with no intention of scoring falls. Final scores like 30-12 weren't uncommon, and nobody wanted to see HS kids humiliated like that. Those matches were also very awkward for the fans.

(As an aside: the PA TF could probably be called the Jack Cuvo Rule. My God could he ring up the scoreboard.)

I'll take your word about folk once having limitless turns on one hold, but that was ended in PA before 1983-84 (maybe earlier). Definitely before PA adopted the tech fall.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand: I'm not opposed to match termination. I just think the 10-pt freestyle differential is too low a bar.

 

[LaxHawk174]

I prefer Folkstyle. But i can certainly see how Freestyle matches could be more exciting to many. For me i prefer the takedowns control criteria for folk much more than in freestyle, one example being the go behind scenario where in freestyle you have to put the knees to the mat and he is in a tripod, whereas in folkstyle that would be an obvious takedown.

The other thing that i prefer about folk is the non-exposure points in scrambles or momentum based moves, control has to be established be a wrestler before exposure points are counted and awarded by the ref. (by that i mean one wrestler has to have control, you can't just get nearfall without getting a takedown or being in the top position). It also allows some of the best defensive wrestling on display IMO, with all of the scrambling it makes for some exciting scenarios.

In my perfect world Russia, Iran, and all of the other big wrestling countries would also wrestle folkstyle, and Folkstyle wrestling would be added to the olympics. How good could some of the Russians or Iranians be if some of their superstars were training folk full time? That would be something I would love to see someday, International competition for our best folkstylers.