Everyone involved in the sham should be blasted in the side of the head with a steel rod.
Dave Jones credits 4 people for the survival of PSU FB. Any guesses?
- Thread starter ChiTownLion
- Start date
Bubble of central PA? How difficult would it have been for Erickson to exhibit concern for the victims but also exhibit concern for the rights of the accused? How difficult would it have been to say that PSU accepts full responsibility for the actions of it's executives but that he was unwilling to toss them (and the university) under the bus without due process? How difficult would it have been for him to tell the NCAA that he wanted Freeh to come and explain his conclusions before agreeing to severe sanctions?
Since when is accepting responsibility for something you might not have done the right thing to do?
Did you fail the "how to win friends and influence people 101" course your freshman year?
You did !!
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
I have always said Mitchell is the only one who actually gave Penn State a fair shake. In the Mechanism of the consent decree Mitchell was to report on Penn States progress in certain areas. He gave us good reports and furthered momentum in Penn States direction. The overwhelming majority of people connected to the University think this is something that was never needed and resent anybody involved with it but since it was going to happen I am glad Mitchell was the one doing the reviewing. Thank god it was not Freeh or someone cut from his cloth.
O'Brien certainly would stay from 66's list but Corman is the only other guy I think I would consider.
Oh please....the only thing Corman ever did was cover the OG BOT's butts by settling his lawsuit early RIGHT BEFORE the 400+ emails were about to get publicly released and not require the NCAA to at least apologize for the unjust sanctions and CD. He still had weeks left until the trial date and his negotiating position would have been MUCH stronger had he started settlement talks AFTER the damning emails were released.
The only reason I can think of for Corman settling when he did was to protect his benefactors on the OG BOT because not only did those emails make the NCAA look bad, they also made the OG BOT, Freeh, OAG/Corbett/Tomalis, etc. look bad as well. It sucks to say that as I had a lot of hope in Corman but to me when he settled at the precise time I mentioned above is when he showed his hand. He isn't really on PSU's side, he's only on Jake Corman's side.
I've heard some people speculate that Corman settled when he did because his partner on the lawsuit was about to get in some legal trouble. That may be true but his partner's legal trouble had NOTHING to do with their litigation with the NCAA. Covey would have had none of that if the NCAA tried to loop that separate issue into their litigation IMO.
Not that this proves anything, but a lot of people seem to forget that Corman was a member of TSM's BOT, I think starting in 2010. It's something to keep in mind...
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LOL. George Mitchell.
Typical welfare consuming politician.
Guys who can't help but to prostitute their "credentials" in the public sector to wallow in fat payoffs (ala "His Honor" Louis)
I don't know how much went straight into Georgie's pocket.....but he charged MLB $20 million for his half-assed steroids report (which just so happened to "miss" David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez - members of the BoSox, the team that Georgie was on the Board of)......and we know PSU was extorted out of millions more.
Like so many of these self-important dust-farters, In his 60's, dumped his long term spouse, to shag up with a woman in her 30's:
F George Mitchell.
Assclown.
The media was onto this by the Sunday morning paper delivery. Bob Ford in the Philly Inquirer was calling for Joe's job. The dynamic was enormous. I have always thought it would have taken a BP like PR campaign to have any shot to stem the administration covers up molestation to protect football narrative. This probably is the most complicated thing that has ever happened to a University in our nation's history.
LOL. George Mitchell.
Typical welfare consuming politician.
Guys who can't help but to prostitute their "credentials" in the public sector to wallow in fat payoffs (ala "His Honor" Louis)
I don't know how much went straight into Georgie's pocket.....but he charged MLB $20 million for his half-assed steroids report (which just so happened to "miss" David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez - members of the BoSox, the team that Georgie was on the Board of)......and we know PSU was extorted out of millions more.
Like so many of these self-important dust-farters, In his 60's, dumped his long term spouse, to shag up with a woman in her 30's:
F George Mitchell.
Assclown.
Well, Mitchell at least never dissed us. Like Mitchell, if PSU wants to pay me to sign my name to a series of reports that might has well have been written 20 years ago, I am all in.
Maybe...but they retained Spanier (initially) and fired Paterno. Then, later when the media storm died out and they had a chance to write the history of it all, they had Freeh finger Paterno...AGAIN.
So they have no sympathies, as far as i am concerned. "The Media Storm" narrative doesn't play when it comes to Freeh, which was IMHO, much more damaging overall.
One of the largest and most loyal fan bases in the country saved PSU football.
I'll give and honorable mention to the players that stayed but they are a distant second. It wasn't the coaches. No offense to O'Brien or Franklin but if we didn't get them we would have found somebody else for $4 million + per year that would have done a credible job. Certainly no credit to Erickson and the BOT. Not only did they throw us under the bus, they are also the ones responsible for giving Sandusky emeritus status with access to the Lasch Building.
I'll give and honorable mention to the players that stayed but they are a distant second. It wasn't the coaches. No offense to O'Brien or Franklin but if we didn't get them we would have found somebody else for $4 million + per year that would have done a credible job. Certainly no credit to Erickson and the BOT. Not only did they throw us under the bus, they are also the ones responsible for giving Sandusky emeritus status with access to the Lasch Building.
Yes, and that's when adults and people who are fiduciaries are supposed to step up and say "we still DON'T KNOW ANY OF THE FACTS YET. Eveyone calm down and let due process run it's course". The media can say whatever they want, it doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. You sure as EFF don't admit guilt on anyone's behalf especially when the claims are as outrageous as covering up for a pedo!!
Only complete incompetent idiots or people with an agenda would do otherwise. In either case they need to be removed from the school as fiduciaries. The cancer MUST be cut out before the alums, etc. truly can "move on".
My few people probably would be different from most. I have always said the administrators screwed up and left the University open to tremendous damage. In their own experience mails to each other they said as much. They might never be convicted of a crime but their negligence started this ball rolling.
You may be forgetting how - when the OG Scoundrels began to face some heat - Georgie signed those reports which lauded all kinds of praise on the efforts OG, and were critical of those crazy fringe folks trying to destroy Penn State.
I don't know if Georgie even read those reports he signed....but he signed them nonetheless. And cashed one nice fat check.
F him.
Corman's lawyer or any lawyer would have been a fool not to settle the lawsuit for exactly what their client was suing for. He effectively got the consent decree eliminated sans fines.
On this, we agree. The NCAA settled because they had to. the press allowed them to get away with that spin. Fact is, 409 was officially back and the sanctions were ostensibly eliminated. Why? Because they were wrong and were exposed....again, the press let us down.
The trustees paid PR firms like Edelman an enormous amount of money to reinforce that narrative.
I tried to give our "leaders" the benefit of the doubt -- until they delivered this little gem of a quote in the now-infamous USA Today story:
"That would become the new great experiment. Can you properly position athletics and not compromise academics?"
Link: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ickson-interview-football-emphasis/51686080/1
"That would become the new great experiment. Can you properly position athletics and not compromise academics?"
Link: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ickson-interview-football-emphasis/51686080/1
LOL.
Can you read? Seriously.
Aside from getting the "409" back.....which element of the CD did the "Corman Victory" erase?
There were NINE penalties outlined in the CD (you can reference the picture above for a list - or pull up the CD yourself).
I'll wait........
In the meantime:
He managed to:
- terminate the discovery/trial portions of the suit (which was a HUGE victory for the NCAA and the PSU BOT Scoundrels)
- put PSU on the hook for another $2 million in extortion (paying the Commonwealth's legal bills)
- forcing an agreement on the part of Penn State that the NCAA "acted with a good faith interest" (another HUGE victory for the NCAA - and, by proxy, the OG Scoundrels. A victory which has raised the uphill incline for every other legal action that is ongoing, including the "Paterno Suit")
LMAO.
BTW, the answer to the earlier question is ZERO. NADA. ZILCH.
409!!!! Yippee!!!
I think you really nailed it down with you post. The pressure was enormous and the media firestorm was epic. You hear the occasional anti Penn St. joke or comment but that is less frequent as time goes by. The NCAA over reach made Penn St. football some what of a sympathetic figure. There is a lot of ire going around and who knows how much of it is warranted. There was no blueprint to go by for this type of scandal.Nobody had written the book on how to deal with this hot button an issue. Again a very good well thought out post.
I tried to give our "leaders" the benefit of the doubt -- until they delivered this little gem of a quote in the now-infamous USA Today story:
"That would become the new great experiment. Can you properly position athletics and not compromise academics?"
Link: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ickson-interview-football-emphasis/51686080/1
No doubt, beyond comical to claim that Soapy molesting kids at his charity where he was the most powerful "control person" via his "Founder's Status" (and hypocrtical, corrupt jokers like Jake Corman were on the Board of Directors) is an NCAA Violation that gave us some kind of "competitive advantage on the field of play"?!?! This entire episode had precsely nothing to do with academic fraud or athletics & the NCAA - absolutely nothing - and beyond absurd to claim it does. Doublely absurd given the sterling track record of "The Grand Experiment" in regards to academics outright, but especially relative to its "major college" D1-A peers.
Yes there is a blueprint. Anyone with a brain knows what it is. It's PR 101 and doesn't take a PR expert to figure it out. It goes as follows:
-Take a neutral stance and place all involved individuals on admin leave until due process runs it's course and the FACTS come out.
The media was basing all of their reports on a GJP. A one sided, non factual, prosecutorial document that was ILLEGALLY posted (how the media/OAG got away with disseminating it is beyond me). Certainly Ken Frazier, being a Harvard trained lawyer, knew that. Yet he allowed PSU to get crucified by the media and allowed a GJP to drive the firing of Joe by the BOT. Surma even said in the press conference "we don't know all the facts yet" and that all they had was the media reports/GJP. Don't you find that odd?? Why in the hell would Frazier be on board with such a plan?? It wasn't because it's what PR 101 dictated to do, that's for sure.
There are numerous PR/Crisis management experts (including PSU's own Stephen Fink) who have SHREDDED the PSU OG BOT for how the handled the JS crisis. In fact they messed up so bad it's causing people to wonder if there was a hidden agenda behind such terrible decisions.
I agree somewhat but INMO its Mauti, Zordich, McGloin, Ursche...l who deserve the most praise, then the fans and alums then O'Brien.
No, that is the David Jones who opposed the inclusion of the PSAA seat on the board in his role as an emeritus member of the governance committee and then was told his services are no longer required by the Cabal.
Once again, the firestorm was "epic" because the trustees themselves, and Erickson, were fueling the firestorm.
I tried to give our "leaders" the benefit of the doubt -- until they delivered this little gem of a quote in the now-infamous USA Today story:
"That would become the new great experiment. Can you properly position athletics and not compromise academics?"
Link: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ickson-interview-football-emphasis/51686080/1
The turd later denied he said that. Claimed he was "mis-quoted".
What a jerkoff.
I certainly don't mean any disrespect to the players but I stick with my statement that it was/is the fans.
One comment about the players. They all could have transferred without penalty but it would have been difficult for the seniors to do with such short notice. They would have to meet new friends, adjust to new classes, learn how to deal with a new coaching staff, etc. for just one year. So staying was probably a no brainer for upper classmen like Hodges, Zordich, McGloin, etc. I'm inclined to give more credit to underclassmen like Wartman, A. Johnson, Zettel, etc. Their transfers would have been much easier because they didn't have so much invested in PSU at that point.
A few random points:
The Central PA bubble (and I'd extend it out to much of the state) is real. Yes, not everyone in PA lives Penn State. But, you have a large critical mass of people who do. If you weren't outside the bubble when this happened, you have no idea what it was like. When people say they thought the university should have been shut down completely, not just the football program, and burned to the ground, they meant it. It was THAT BAD. The possibility of getting kicked out of the B1G was real , people were so upset (yeah, I know, a lot of you would love to have been kicked out, but trust me, NO OTHER CONFERENCE would have taken us at that point).
People will be offended by a lot of things. And they will forgive a lot of scandals. But there is one line you don't cross in this country, and that is child rape. Sandusky could have been a serial killer and it wouldn't have been as bad as it was.
As if being accused of covering up the granddaddy of all sins wasn't enough, it was why. Not to protect the university's reputation (which would have been bad enough), but to protect football. A game. A game that many people feel has gotten too big and too commercial and too corrupt as it is. This just fed into that narrative, reinforced what they already believed. Like if a huge investigation claimed to have definitive proof that SEC schools handed bags of cash to recruits. Everyone on this board would be quick to believe it and denounce it without reviewing the investigation.
Most people outside of Penn Staters have followed this in any detail. They don't see the ridiculousness of Baldwin's presence in the Grand Jury room, but trying to claim she wasn't representing them. They don't know what Fina said about Joe not being a part of it. They don't ask why the Second Mile wasn't investigated. They don't see how Sandusky didn't have a fair trial. This is what they know: the grandstanding AG when charges were brought and what she said. Joe was fired (so he must be guilty), no one at PSU. They know the BOT didn't defend the university and that the university settled with Sanduskys victims again, they must be guilty. And they know what Freeh said, and the university didn't defend themselves. To them, it's very cut and dry, and there's no grey area.
We love nothing more in this country than to tear down our heroes. We love to prove that the powerful and rich are no better than us. After all, it's Murica, everyone is equal, our leaders just think they're better than us. The AG served up one of the biggest heroes on a plate, and not only tore him down, made him a hypocrit in the eyes of the public.
The press loved the above narrative, and went with it blindly. Fact checking be damned.
The university, in a move not to come across as callous to the victims, lost complete control of the narrative, and didn't even seem to try to get it back. And anything that did find out, seemed only to reinforce it.
For reasons only they know, the BOT let football take the fall. Maybe they were covering their own asses, as has been discussed. Maybe some personal vendettas came into play. Maybe they were protecting the university as a whole, and scapegoated Joe and the football program. People "in the know" have said for quite some time that while some people eventually will come out of this looking better, others will look worse. Maybe they thought they were protecting the university itself by deflecting blame. It's possible. We don't have all the facts yet. And remember our accreditation with Middle States was being challenged when this happened as well, and we were being investigated for Clery Act violations. What happened to football and athletics would have been small potatoes if we lost the accreditation. That could have ruined the entire university.
Those of you saying we shouldn't have signed the consent decree... well, I honestly don't know. Barring any new information coming out, I personally believe the wrong people were punished, and that people and programs were scapegoated. That said... let's assume that Penn State said no and didn't cooperate. At that point he NCAA has to take control, they can't be seen as weak, and remember the public wants the university shut down completely. So they impose the death penalty. Let's say a judge issued a stay. You know the court probably grants a stay while the case is litigated. Now, my guess is the NCAA drags this out as long as they can. They would probably still be delaying and fighting. Even without sanctions, Penn State would be trying to recruit with the threat of the death penalty over its head. I have a feeling the program would have went in the shitter because of that. Those of you who think it would have been over quickly are delusional. In the meantime, you greatly underestimate how the university and how the team would have been treated. Once we lost the narrative and it got to Freeh, for us to say no, you can't punish us, EVEN IF WE WERE RIGHT, wouldn't matter. At that point we would have been the cultists who protected football over children, and now we still didn't get it by fighting punishment. The ref who said "you're lucky to be playing" would have been the least of our concerns. You've heard the expression "dead right?" We would have been the poster children for that. The live to fight another day is a good analogy. Although it would appear to not be the strategy the BOT and admins are following.
Where the Board went wrong with its "move on" mantra was misunderstanding 1. The alumni's depth of connection to the university, and to Joe specifically, 2. The alumni's desire to find out what really happened, punish those who were guilty, 3. The alumni's commitment to finding the truth, no matter where it leads, and even if that leads to more disappointment.
I believe people and departments were scapegoated, and I want to know the truth. I do worry about where it leads, but am prepared to deal with it. I want guilty parties punished, and reputations restored as much as possible. But as much as I think the BOT and Adminstration have mishandled this from the beginning, to say that we should have fought the NCAA and not signed the decree ignores the fact that our opportunity to minimize any damage had passed back in November through January.
The Central PA bubble (and I'd extend it out to much of the state) is real. Yes, not everyone in PA lives Penn State. But, you have a large critical mass of people who do. If you weren't outside the bubble when this happened, you have no idea what it was like. When people say they thought the university should have been shut down completely, not just the football program, and burned to the ground, they meant it. It was THAT BAD. The possibility of getting kicked out of the B1G was real , people were so upset (yeah, I know, a lot of you would love to have been kicked out, but trust me, NO OTHER CONFERENCE would have taken us at that point).
People will be offended by a lot of things. And they will forgive a lot of scandals. But there is one line you don't cross in this country, and that is child rape. Sandusky could have been a serial killer and it wouldn't have been as bad as it was.
As if being accused of covering up the granddaddy of all sins wasn't enough, it was why. Not to protect the university's reputation (which would have been bad enough), but to protect football. A game. A game that many people feel has gotten too big and too commercial and too corrupt as it is. This just fed into that narrative, reinforced what they already believed. Like if a huge investigation claimed to have definitive proof that SEC schools handed bags of cash to recruits. Everyone on this board would be quick to believe it and denounce it without reviewing the investigation.
Most people outside of Penn Staters have followed this in any detail. They don't see the ridiculousness of Baldwin's presence in the Grand Jury room, but trying to claim she wasn't representing them. They don't know what Fina said about Joe not being a part of it. They don't ask why the Second Mile wasn't investigated. They don't see how Sandusky didn't have a fair trial. This is what they know: the grandstanding AG when charges were brought and what she said. Joe was fired (so he must be guilty), no one at PSU. They know the BOT didn't defend the university and that the university settled with Sanduskys victims again, they must be guilty. And they know what Freeh said, and the university didn't defend themselves. To them, it's very cut and dry, and there's no grey area.
We love nothing more in this country than to tear down our heroes. We love to prove that the powerful and rich are no better than us. After all, it's Murica, everyone is equal, our leaders just think they're better than us. The AG served up one of the biggest heroes on a plate, and not only tore him down, made him a hypocrit in the eyes of the public.
The press loved the above narrative, and went with it blindly. Fact checking be damned.
The university, in a move not to come across as callous to the victims, lost complete control of the narrative, and didn't even seem to try to get it back. And anything that did find out, seemed only to reinforce it.
For reasons only they know, the BOT let football take the fall. Maybe they were covering their own asses, as has been discussed. Maybe some personal vendettas came into play. Maybe they were protecting the university as a whole, and scapegoated Joe and the football program. People "in the know" have said for quite some time that while some people eventually will come out of this looking better, others will look worse. Maybe they thought they were protecting the university itself by deflecting blame. It's possible. We don't have all the facts yet. And remember our accreditation with Middle States was being challenged when this happened as well, and we were being investigated for Clery Act violations. What happened to football and athletics would have been small potatoes if we lost the accreditation. That could have ruined the entire university.
Those of you saying we shouldn't have signed the consent decree... well, I honestly don't know. Barring any new information coming out, I personally believe the wrong people were punished, and that people and programs were scapegoated. That said... let's assume that Penn State said no and didn't cooperate. At that point he NCAA has to take control, they can't be seen as weak, and remember the public wants the university shut down completely. So they impose the death penalty. Let's say a judge issued a stay. You know the court probably grants a stay while the case is litigated. Now, my guess is the NCAA drags this out as long as they can. They would probably still be delaying and fighting. Even without sanctions, Penn State would be trying to recruit with the threat of the death penalty over its head. I have a feeling the program would have went in the shitter because of that. Those of you who think it would have been over quickly are delusional. In the meantime, you greatly underestimate how the university and how the team would have been treated. Once we lost the narrative and it got to Freeh, for us to say no, you can't punish us, EVEN IF WE WERE RIGHT, wouldn't matter. At that point we would have been the cultists who protected football over children, and now we still didn't get it by fighting punishment. The ref who said "you're lucky to be playing" would have been the least of our concerns. You've heard the expression "dead right?" We would have been the poster children for that. The live to fight another day is a good analogy. Although it would appear to not be the strategy the BOT and admins are following.
Where the Board went wrong with its "move on" mantra was misunderstanding 1. The alumni's depth of connection to the university, and to Joe specifically, 2. The alumni's desire to find out what really happened, punish those who were guilty, 3. The alumni's commitment to finding the truth, no matter where it leads, and even if that leads to more disappointment.
I believe people and departments were scapegoated, and I want to know the truth. I do worry about where it leads, but am prepared to deal with it. I want guilty parties punished, and reputations restored as much as possible. But as much as I think the BOT and Adminstration have mishandled this from the beginning, to say that we should have fought the NCAA and not signed the decree ignores the fact that our opportunity to minimize any damage had passed back in November through January.
You know when it's all said and done a name that might end up on this list: Christian Hackenberg.
Also Adam Breneman. These guys held that recruiting class together. After losing much of the top shelf talent from the previous class we needed these guys badly and they stuck with us despite the uncertainty.
Dave Jones getting savaged:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ps4rs/869742543073355/?comment_id=869816049732671¬if_t=like
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ps4rs/869742543073355/?comment_id=869816049732671¬if_t=like
I think they likely were worried about the perception(to the public) that Penn State was not willing to pay the penalty for Sandusky's alleged actions on Campus. Also with being threatened with the death penalty it brings another dynamic into it. What would had injunction have done? I don't know but I don't think it would have made the public all of a sudden change their opinion about what happened at Penn St. There was a lot to think about. I don't think it was any where near as easy as some portray it to be.
It would have taken the greatest PR effort of all time to save the University's reputation. The football program had a chance to be salvaged and it was either a harsh penalty short of death or a court fight that might have kept the program in limbo also. These were not easy choices.
Many level headed points in your post.One of the best posts in the entire thread.
LOL.
The scary thing is....he actually might believe what he wrote.
Empathizing with the "dire situation" faced by the Scoundrels......after the Scoundrels dropped an atomic bomb, and then went around fighting fires by pouring Jet Fuel onto the embers.
Not to even mention that they undertook those actions with deliberation and purpose......in order to obfuscate their own malfeasance.
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