Damon Sims obeys his masters, ignores IFC: KDR banned for 3 years

[simons96]

Guys, all I can do is repeat myself. I represented one of the fraternity members. I know that as of today, no one has been charged by the university or by the county.

Sounds very familiar doesn't it? No rules or laws broken but the students are painted by the media to be deviant rapists.

And who led them to this conclusion? The university press conference announcing guilt before investigation.

And the photos? All but one were sent to the fraternity by the women who took them. The other one is more tasteful than you see in the ordinary Penthouse magazine.

thanks for the post. again, people should be very suspicious that the IFC worked with the Office of Student Conduct AND the State College Police Department and settled on a punishment that took all these factors into account

Sims just basically said, "screw you" and arbitrarily handed down a 3 yr suspension, essentially a death penalty, a la Emmert

 

[Pardlion]

Guys, all I can do is repeat myself. I represented one of the fraternity members. I know that as of today, no one has been charged by the university or by the county.

Sounds very familiar doesn't it? No rules or laws broken but the students are painted by the media to be deviant rapists.

And who led them to this conclusion? The university press conference announcing guilt before investigation.

And the photos? All but one were sent to the fraternity by the women who took them. The other one is more tasteful than you see in the ordinary Penthouse magazine.

So are you saying that University administration and the media, joined by a bunch of credulous chuckleheads on this board, Rushed to Judgment? Hard to believe.

 

[mbahses]

thanks for the post. again, people should be very suspicious that the IFC worked with the Office of Student Conduct AND the State College Police Department and settled on a punishment that took all these factors into account

Sims just basically said, "screw you" and arbitrarily handed down a 3 yr suspension, essentially a death penalty, a la Emmert

Take Sims and the others to Court. Watch how fast the 3 year thing disappears.

 

[simons96]

Take Sims and the others to Court. Watch how fast the 3 year thing disappears.

sadly it seems like that is the only language the University understands any more

 

[PSU_Nut]

Guys, all I can do is repeat myself. I represented one of the fraternity members. I know that as of today, no one has been charged by the university or by the county.

Sounds very familiar doesn't it? No rules or laws broken but the students are painted by the media to be deviant rapists.

And who led them to this conclusion? The university press conference announcing guilt before investigation.

And the photos? All but one were sent to the fraternity by the women who took them. The other one is more tasteful than you see in the ordinary Penthouse magazine.

So you are saying just because the women took the photos it is ok to share them? If your daughter sent a pictures just to me but I decided to share it with a group you would be ok with that? Just because it not criminal it may not the type of behavior an organization affiliated with the university should be engaged in.

 

[Pardlion]

So you are saying just because the women took the photos it is ok to share them? If your daughter sent a pictures just to me but I decided to share it with a group you would be ok with that? Just because it not criminal it may not the type of behavior an organization affiliated with the university should be engaged in.

You need to have a chat with the users of the internet.

 

[getmyjive11]

You need to have a chat with the users of the internet.

Did it ever occur to you that just because something is on the internet doesn't mean that it should be there or is legally allowed to be posted?

 

[mbahses]

Did it ever occur to you that just because something is on the internet doesn't mean that it should be there or is legally allowed to be posted?

If you freely provide it, oh well. My cousin always said "Once a whore, always a whore". Don't be stupid and cough stuff up.

 

[Pardlion]

Did it ever occur to you that just because something is on the internet doesn't mean that it should be there or is legally allowed to be posted?

I don't know, but fwiw Brett Favre agrees with you.

 

[mbahses]

If they go to Court, no way this Shiddarackus stands.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Yeah, interesting. Now we have "embarrassing photos" instead of "nude photos of passed out women". Plus, the administration felt the need to "bolster" its case with a bunch of other stuff, like making up pornographic stories and making pledges clean up. Something isn't right.

You should resist the temptation to post because, every time you do, you embarrass yourself. You obviously know nothing about the KDR situation, but have somehow convinced yourself that nothing inappropriate happened there. No private web sites with photos of nude or semi-nude women, no making pledges clean up the chapter house at all (much less on a daily basis);, in fact, no hazing at all.

I am a fraternity member myself and very supportive of fraternities, but the undergraduate members of KDR's PSU chapter made several serious mistakes in judgment, and they are now paying the price for it. Your attempts to minimize something you know nothing about are laughable.

 

[Pardlion]

You should resist the temptation to post because, every time you do, you embarrass yourself. You obviously know nothing about the KDR situation, but have somehow convinced yourself that nothing inappropriate happened there. No private web sites with photos of nude or semi-nude women, no making pledges clean up the chapter house at all (much less on a daily basis);, in fact, no hazing at all.

I am a fraternity member myself and very supportive of fraternities, but the undergraduate members of KDR's PSU chapter made several serious mistakes in judgment, and they are now paying the price for it. Your attempts to minimize something you know nothing about are laughable.

I asked for details. Someone posted a newspaper article. I read said article and came away with a strong feeling that the initial "case" against the fraternity (posting photos of nude, passed out party guests) had morphed into a different "case", i.e., the goalposts have been moved by University administration, because the "case" that was initially reported in the media and caused such outrage among all of the chicken littles on this board, including you, predictably turned out not to be right. I might add that I warned that that might turn out to be the case. But no, you and your friends went off half-cocked and were crying for 10-year jail terms for some kind of sex offense. Now it seems the frat is being banned, basically for being ungentlemanly.

I don't happen to think that making pledges clean a fraternity house is a big deal. But, I understand that some wussies consider this to be "hazing". Cry me a river.

As for the nude pictures, it seems to me that what happened is that some girls sexted images to some frat boys and the frat boys posted the images on their private webpage. Not great behavior, but maybe not different than Jen Sturgis and Sydney Leathers publicizing dick pics of Brett Favre and Antony Weiner--situations in which you will recall the sexters were castigated and the broad publication of the images was not deemed to be a bad act. My belief here is just a hunch, but hey, since you seem to know it all maybe you can let us know if I'm wrong.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Maybe you can let us know if I'm wrong.

OK. You're wrong.

The basic facts that were initially reported in the media have not turned out to be wrong. They are as reported. There was not one, but two, KDR webpages. (Just as reported.) Many of the images on those webpages were of nude or semi nude women who had passed out. (Just as reported.) Are you suggesting that they were sexting compromising (to say the least) photos of themselves taken while they were passed out? Good luck convincing anyone of THAT.

The University administration did not, as you suggest, "move the goalposts." It waited while local police conducted an investigation and sought interviews with some of the alleged victims (to confirm whether the taking or posting of photos of them was consensual). It allowed the Penn State IFC to attempt formulation of appropriate sanctions for the Chapter. The University administration intervened only when it became apparent that the IFC was proposing sanctions that were not proportionate to either the conduct in question, or to sanctions imposed on other PSU fraternities. I happen to know a few people involved in this process (people other than Damon Sims), so I am not (like you) engaging in wholly unsupported speculation.

You may not think it is a big deal to make the entire pledge class (many of whom are freshman who live in East Halls) trudge over to the fraternity house each day at 6:00 AM to clean it, but every college administration and every legislature in the country would differ with you on that one. That's called hazing. You obviously do not understand how fraternity chapters - at least the ones that hope to avoid being closed - must operate. Pledges should not and cannot function as the domestic servants of the initiated brothers, either at Penn State or anywhere else.

 

[Pardlion]

Are you suggesting that they were sexting compromising (to say the least) photos of themselves taken while they were passed out? Good luck convincing anyone of THAT.

Are you serious? When you sext, you take pictures of your own bits and send them on. THus, byd definition, it doesn't happen when you are passed out.

Since you're so knowledgeable, tell us how many nudie pictures of passed out women, taken by frat brothers at the frat house, were posted on the TWO! webpages.

 

[mbahses]

These women except for one, were goofy enough to hand out their pics. Tell you anything?

 

[LafayetteBear]

Are you serious? When you sext, you take pictures of your own bits and send them on. THus, byd definition, it doesn't happen when you are passed out.

Jeebus. That is precisely my point. You, not I, tried to explain things away by suggested that the photos populating the two websites in question were likely the product of sexting. I merely pointed out that, since many or most of the photos are of women who are passed out, those photos are not the product of sexting.

 

[Pardlion]

Jeebus. That is precisely my point. You, not I, tried to explain things away by suggested that the photos populating the two websites in question were likely the product of sexting. I merely pointed out that, since many or most of the photos are of women who are passed out, those photos are not the product of sexting.

Nice avoidance of the question, which I will repeat is: how many nudie pictures of passed out women, taken by frat brothers at the frat house, were posted on the TWO! webpages

 

[LafayetteBear]

As if I was avoiding your question. Sigh.

You realize that the websites in question were taken down some time ago. The police and PSU administration have not exactly been circulating photos among the general populace. Although I have been told (by people who HAVE seen the website) that there were numerous such photos, I cannot give you either a specific number or percentage. But I would suggest that the percentage is likely high, given that these were "private" websites the PSU KDR's created and used for their amusement. Photos of fully clothed girls in innocuous poses would hardly merit the creation of a private website.

 

[dfm135psu]

Nice avoidance of the question, which I will repeat is: how many nudie pictures of passed out women, taken by frat brothers at the frat house, were posted on the TWO! webpages

It seems to me that one would be enough to take action. What they allegedly did was very disturbing to say the least.

 

[Pardlion]

As if I was avoiding your question. Sigh.

You realize that the websites in question were taken down some time ago. The police and PSU administration have not exactly been circulating photos among the general populace. Although I have been told (by people who HAVE seen the website) that there were numerous such photos, I cannot give you either a specific number or percentage. But I would suggest that the percentage is likely high, given that these were "private" websites the PSU KDR's created and used for their amusement. Photos of fully clothed girls in innocuous poses would hardly merit the creation of a private website.

So you have nothing.

FYI, there are many ways to get nude pictures of women. There's even this thing now called "Google" and it will deliver them right to your computer screen. Also, in some cases, women will just send them to you. I've even seen some pictures that are pretty close right on this website.

So, your "suggestions" are worthless until you come up with something better, like a real victim.

 

[Pardlion]

It seems to me that one would be enough to take action. What they allegedly did was very disturbing to say the least.

Is there one?

And what did they do?

 

[stf110]

It seems to me that one would be enough to take action. What they allegedly did was very disturbing to say the least.

I would have to agree with you on that. The answer to "how many naked or semi naked pictures should you take and or post or forward without the person in the picture being OK with it" should be right around "none".

I mean anyone who has been paying ANY attention to the pubic push-back against crap like this in fraternities and sororities around the country for the past several years should not be shocked by this out come at all.

I mean those who don't condone awful behavior at least.

 

[mbahses]

I would have to agree with you on that. The answer to "how many naked or semi naked pictures should you take and or post or forward without the person in the picture being OK with it" should be right around "none".

I mean anyone who has been paying ANY attention to the pubic push-back against crap like this in fraternities and sororities around the country for the past several years should not be shocked by this out come at all.

I mean those who don't condone awful behavior at least.

Here's my tiddy pics.....freely given out. What do you expect?

 

[simons96]

I guess I am still having a hard time understanding how the IFC and the admin had access to the same info, and the IFC recommended a punishment that was far less severe. The administration essentially ignored them and laid down the hammer. There is room for debate on whether that was justified, but I am more concerned with why there was such a gap.

 

[mbahses]

I guess I am still having a hard time understanding how the IFC and the admin had access to the same info, and the IFC recommended a punishment that was far less severe. The administration essentially ignored them and laid down the hammer. There is room for debate on whether that was justified, but I am more concerned with why there was such a gap.

This all ties in to Mao Barron's agenda. But I think you know that '96.

 

[simons96]

I understand that the allegations are horrible, not excusing the behavior, but I fail to see how taking the NCAA approach of a 3 year ban serves the interests of Penn State or KDR. it is essentially a death penalty. Have any of the accused been through Student Conduct hearings? criminal investigations? due process??

 

[mbahses]

I understand that the allegations are horrible, not excusing the behavior, but I fail to see how taking the NCAA approach of a 3 year ban serves the interests of Penn State or KDR. it is essentially a death penalty. Have any of the accused been through Student Conduct hearings? criminal investigations? due process??

Nope. Pol Pot Barron has his hand in here. In fact, compared to Barron, I'd take Pol Pot. Pol Pot did what he did, and was upfront. Barron is a sneak.

 

[dfm135psu]

Is there one?

And what did they do?

Never mind, you're right. Nothing happened and the whole thing is completely made up. Everyone move along.

 

[Pardlion]

Never mind, you're right. Nothing happened and the whole thing is completely made up. Everyone move along.

Which is more likely:

Something really bad happened and IFC decides to do nothing about it, or

Something not very serious happened and the administration, for its own self-serving reasons, decided to take disproportionate action.

 

[manatree]

I guess I am still having a hard time understanding how the IFC and the admin had access to the same info, and the IFC recommended a punishment that was far less severe. The administration essentially ignored them and laid down the hammer. There is room for debate on whether that was justified, but I am more concerned with why there was such a gap.

Oh, I don't know. Just spitballing here, but perhaps, jusssst perhaps fellow 18-22 year old fraternity brothers were reluctant to punish one of their own? Especially since they needed to have a unanimous vote to suspend. (Does mandatory unanimous votes ring any bells?) The punishment that IFC recommended was no punishment at all.

It would be interesting to see how many past suspensions were doled out by IFC and how many by the University.

 

[simons96]

IFC President releases statement in support of PSU's decision

“While the Interfraternity Council has been delegated the power to hear cases involving its member organizations, it is important to remember that Penn State University must wield the final authority on all matters where University recognition is concerned,” he said.

 

[manatree]

These women except for one, were goofy enough to hand out their pics. Tell you anything?

Other women who have stepped forward or been identified have been given their options as far as pressing charges of harassment and invasion of privacy, but none have rendered a decision yet, Robb said.​

Well this tells me that the police found evidence of criminal behaviour by KDR againse several women.

http://www.centredaily.com/2015/05/28/4769312/police-update-state-of-kdr-investigation.html

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2015/05/...state-of-kdr-investigation.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Pardlion]

Other women who have stepped forward or been identified have been given their options as far as pressing charges of harassment and invasion of privacy, but none have rendered a decision yet, Robb said.​

Well this tells me that the police found evidence of criminal behaviour by KDR againse several women.

http://www.centredaily.com/2015/05/28/4769312/police-update-state-of-kdr-investigation.html

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2015/05/28/4769312/police-update-state-of-kdr-investigation.html#storylink=cpy

It sounds to me like the police gave the women the option of filing their own charges, but the cops and DA weren't willing to take action on their own. If the cops had found evidence of criminal behavior, I would hope that they would do something more impressive tell some women that they could file charges, if they want to.

The most interesting bit of information that I have seen so far is that IFC refused to take action. This stands in contrast to many prior decisions in which the IFC has suspended or banned fraternities for misbehavior. If the conduct in this case was so obviously criminal, it would have been a no-brainer for IFC to punish the fraternity. In fact, it seems to me that the riskier, more controversial decision was to not take action against the fraternity. So, why did IFC do what it did, and then issue a statement deferring to the authority of the university but not affirming the basis for the University's decision?

 

[PSU_Nut]

If you freely provide it, oh well. My cousin always said "Once a whore, always a whore". Don't be stupid and cough stuff up.

It that mentality why many young women are victimized. Yes they need to be smart and not do things like that. However it doesn't mean it is right to take advantage of it. Do you think if a girl drunk and dressed like a whore it is OK to take advantage of her?

So you have nothing.

FYI, there are many ways to get nude pictures of women. There's even this thing now called "Google" and it will deliver them right to your computer screen. Also, in some cases, women will just send them to you. I've even seen some pictures that are pretty close right on this website.

So, your "suggestions" are worthless until you come up with something better, like a real victim.

There also a concept called consent. Did they have the consent of every women in those pictures to share them? In this case there are victims and police have identified them. They are just waiting to see if they choose to pursue charges. Even if the victim doesn't choose to pursue charges doesn't mean the act was not criminal. It just means they don't feel they have a strong enough case to get a conviction. As you well know the University is not a criminal court. They don't need criminal convictions in order to take action against an organization. Being recognized as a fraternity at Penn State is a privilege and not a right.

 

[PSU_Nut]

It sounds to me like the police gave the women the option of filing their own charges, but the cops and DA weren't willing to take action on their own. If the cops had found evidence of criminal behavior, I would hope that they would do something more impressive tell some women that they could file charges, if they want to.

The most interesting bit of information that I have seen so far is that IFC refused to take action. This stands in contrast to many prior decisions in which the IFC has suspended or banned fraternities for misbehavior. If the conduct in this case was so obviously criminal, it would have been a no-brainer for IFC to punish the fraternity. In fact, it seems to me that the riskier, more controversial decision was to not take action against the fraternity. So, why did IFC do what it did, and then issue a statement deferring to the authority of the university but not affirming the basis for the University's decision?

That is standard procedure in cases like this. Simply because the police and DA know they won't get convictions. It even happens in violent crimes if the victim doesn't want to cooperate.

The IFC could not get unanimous support for banning them. Are you surprised that a group made up of 18-21 year olds that some members think it perfectly normal to share naked picture on a social network? These are the same individual that think it awesome to post pictures of themselves drunk and doing drugs on social media. The maturity is simply not there and sometimes you need people to step in.

 

[Pardlion]

In this case there are victims and police have identified them.

You don't know that to be the case.

At most, I think we can say that the police identified some women who are shown in some pictures. Unclear who took the pictures and what is shown in the pictures. Apparently, it's been left up to the women whether they want to pursue charges, and as far as we know, none of the women have done so, which suggests that they don't feel strongly that they have been victimized.

 

[Pardlion]

That is standard procedure in cases like this. Simply because the police and DA know they won't get convictions. It even happens in violent crimes if the victim doesn't want to cooperate.

The IFC could not get unanimous support for banning them. Are you surprised that a group made up of 18-21 year olds that some members think it perfectly normal to share naked picture on a social network? These are the same individual that think it awesome to post pictures of themselves drunk and doing drugs on social media. The maturity is simply not there and sometimes you need people to step in.

Really? The IFC has banned a lot of fraternities, so yeah, I'm surprised that they couldn't agree to ban a fraternity if it had engaged in systematic criminal victimization of women.

Your second point is interesting: the IFC members may have seen the pictures as something normal or benign. You do realize that it's an internet meme for women to take and post pictures of their boobs with greek letters written across their chests?

Rush Boobs: http://www.idsnews.com/article/2015...ty-leadership-yet-still-happens-on-ius-campus

 

[PSU_Nut]

very nice write up in the 3 year suspension of KDR, whereby Damon Sims basically tells the IFC to pack sand.

there is no doubt KDR did some reprehensible things, but why even have the IFC work with the Office of Student conduct and the SCPD to make a sensible recommendation?

Because sometimes administrators have to step in. The majority of the time they get things right. It happens in all forms of governance.

You don't know that to be the case.

At most, I think we can say that the police identified some women who are shown in some pictures. Unclear who took the pictures and what is shown in the pictures. Apparently, it's been left up to the women whether they want to pursue charges, and as far as we know, none of the women have done so, which suggests that they don't feel strongly that they have been victimized.

Ray Rice wife didn't want charges pressed. Not wanting charges pressed does not mean they are not a victim and doesn't indicate to any degree how much they feel victimized. The fact that you suggest that is appalling. Your attitude is why some men continue to victimize women.

 

[Pardlion]

Ray Rice wife didn't want charges pressed. Not wanting charges pressed does not mean they are not a victim and doesn't indicate to any degree how much they feel victimized. The fact that you suggest that is appalling. Your attitude is why some men continue to victimize women.

Really? It's appalling that I'm not willing to assume that someone is a criminal when the police and the "victim" are unwilling to take action? I guess you believe that Joe was a pedophile, too. I actually think that your credulous, sanctimonious attitude is appalling. Especially for a PSU person who should know all about media rushes to judgment.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Really? The IFC has banned a lot of fraternities, so yeah, I'm surprised that they couldn't agree to ban a fraternity if it had engaged in systematic criminal victimization of women.

Your second point is interesting: the IFC members may have seen the pictures as something normal or benign. You do realize that it's an internet meme for women to take and post pictures of their boobs with greek letters written across their chests?

Rush Boobs: http://www.idsnews.com/article/2015...ty-leadership-yet-still-happens-on-ius-campus

People who think rush boobs are cool are probably the same one who think it no big deal to share photos of women passed out and naked. They would not view these women as victims and therefore not suspend the fraternity. You just are proving my point that fraternities often think disgusting things are no big deal.