Big 12 - Expand or die.
- Thread starter PSU-Knocker
- Start date
Big 12 goes after FSU, Miami, and two of either Clemson or Louisville or Ga Tech which are all schools that SEC won't touch due to already having teams in that state.
SEC will take Va Tech and NCState to get into Va and North Carolina.
Big 10 will grab UVA and UNC.
Pac 12 does nothing.
Rest of ACC and AAC and will merge to form the twin brother to the Mountain West on the East half of Mississippi.
Only question is will ND fold and goto the Big 12 or else be shut out forever.
SEC will take Va Tech and NCState to get into Va and North Carolina.
Big 10 will grab UVA and UNC.
Pac 12 does nothing.
Rest of ACC and AAC and will merge to form the twin brother to the Mountain West on the East half of Mississippi.
Only question is will ND fold and goto the Big 12 or else be shut out forever.
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anon_is9z1n0h3zblb
Guest
Grant of Rights will keep all P5 schools where they are for at least a decade. Talking about expansion that far in the future is silly since no one knows what is going to happen with all of the "pay the athletes" and concussion lawsuits working their way through the courts.
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Correct, which means expansion targets come from outside of the P5 unless four of the five make a coordinated, concerted run at one of the conferences making its grant agreements moot. Wonder how the Justice Department might react to that.
Well, what does the past tell us?
Penn State was negotiating in secret for years before that was announced.
Missouri went behind everyone's back to discuss membership in the B1G. It was only when Nebraska found out that they, too, began negotiating in secret.
Today, I don't think anyone is meeting seriously behind the scenes. Why would they?
There's a lot of stability right now. If the BIG 12 pulls the trigger too soon, they may regret it.
They say, "When there's no clear option, the best decision is to do nothing." I concur.
Penn State was negotiating in secret for years before that was announced.
Missouri went behind everyone's back to discuss membership in the B1G. It was only when Nebraska found out that they, too, began negotiating in secret.
Today, I don't think anyone is meeting seriously behind the scenes. Why would they?
There's a lot of stability right now. If the BIG 12 pulls the trigger too soon, they may regret it.
They say, "When there's no clear option, the best decision is to do nothing." I concur.
Who are we gonna get that brings (more) value to the B12?
Central Florida comes to mind, maybe Cincinnati. There are no obvious choices, unfortunately.
Right now the "value" should be determined by getting to twelve teams-not necessarily judged by the perceived value of each of the teams individuallyWho are we gonna get that brings (more) value to the B12?
FWIW...if there are any discussions going on, it might be breaking away from the NCAA. I think that happens BEFORE any significant realignment. If it isn't a COMPLETE break, there will be a massive overhaul.
We now have (ahem) playoffs. And, soon, pay to players. Things change. Once, for example, the NIT was the sh!t. Now, it's second rate to the NCAA Tournament. The only constant...change.
We now have (ahem) playoffs. And, soon, pay to players. Things change. Once, for example, the NIT was the sh!t. Now, it's second rate to the NCAA Tournament. The only constant...change.
I don't know all the financial realities but from a fan standpoint I never understood the attraction of a mega-conference. Being able to play everyone in football and everyone home and away in basketball every year seems perfect to me. That is how rivalries are created and maintained. Nine seems perfect to me because then you have 4 home and 4 away football each year.
Isn't it kinda dumb to have a conference that is so big that some schools only play others every few years? I think that some schools in the SEC only play others (several others) once every four years. Other than perhaps for the money, how is such an arrangement beneficial to anyone?
Isn't it kinda dumb to have a conference that is so big that some schools only play others every few years? I think that some schools in the SEC only play others (several others) once every four years. Other than perhaps for the money, how is such an arrangement beneficial to anyone?
Having mega cons works because you have endless programming, easy schedule and name rec. Once you have your brand then you can control outcomes, cheat the bet and win the ratings war.
Suckers born every day to lap this crap up...
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
Suckers born every day to lap this crap up...
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
More likely that Texas joins the ACC with ND versus FSU going to the B12.
Another outcome could be Texas, TT, OU & OK St to PAC 12. Baylor & TCU to the SEC, Kansas & KSt to the B1G and WVU to the ACC with ND.
Another outcome could be Texas, TT, OU & OK St to PAC 12. Baylor & TCU to the SEC, Kansas & KSt to the B1G and WVU to the ACC with ND.
The college football world can't exist without Notre Dame don't ya know!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Because the B1G wants to dominate the wheat fields of Kansas?
The last three schools added to the B1G were a traditional football power with a large national following and two schools from big DMAs. KState and KU, not so much. Don't bother with "Kansas is a basketball power" because basketball doesn't pay the bills. Football does. Football and numbers of television sets.
If the XII splits there is a chance the realignment leaves some schools with fewer financial resources in lesser markets (Iowa State, Kansas State, WVU, etc.) out of the P5.
My guess, however, is the XII survives by adding Cincy and UCF and the other conferences remain stable.
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Oklahoma to the SEC? http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.com/2015/6/30/8875043/ou-headed-to-sec-rumors
Interesting.
Interesting.
Well, if Delany hadn't screwed it up the B1G would be sitting with Texas and Notre Dame instead of Nebraska and Maryland.
Don't you think the travel distance is too much to overcome? Sending the women's basketball team to Boise State in January might turn into a week away from the classroom. And BYU's no play on Sunday policy makes it a non-stater.
ND had zero interest in joining the B1G or the B12. Their goal was always the ACC. Expansion most likely has to come from B12 teams with GOR and exit fees in the ACC. 9 out of 10 B12 teams can get better offers in other confefences. Kansas is an ideal fit for B1G, maybe OU if they don't want to join the PAC 12. The Texas schools are an ideal fit for the PAC 12. OK St and KSU could beSEC bound. The SEC does not need any more football powerhouses. The PAC 12 does and the B1G could use OU to help balance the divisions
Colorado St, Fresno St, Boise St, tulsa, Houston, memphis, and BYU also seem like possible targets of the Big12
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anon_is9z1n0h3zblb
Guest
There's also that whole 'Money" thing. We're getting more that then B12 teams even before the new contract kicks in.
Kansas an ideal fit for Big Ten? UVa and UNC are way, way, way ahead of Kansas. Those schools lock up the mid-atlantic and Big Ten by default then owns essentially the Top 1/4 of the country. SEC owns the south. Big 12 the southwest/Texas and Pac 12 the West.
I don't think NDs choice was the ACC per se but rather was the best conference they could get into on the condition that they be allowed to keep their football independent, which at the time was the ACC. For some reason for decades on end people keep saying ND will fully join this or that conference even though there's no indication they will or need to join a conference at all. Everyone keeps thinking ND will join their conference. ND football is like the hot babe that every guy thinks they can get but none of them ever do.
Not only do I think ND will never join a conference I think it's possible that eventually more big schools become like ND and go independent in football. I think a potential danger for the Big 12 is for Texas to decide they're big enough that they don't need a conference and leave.
So why don't the 8 teams just make their own conference and then have more freedom on who those two games will be each year? You're probably going to answer something about money and you're probably right but from a fan POV it doesn't seem so great. It feels more like a loose affiliation than a conference.
Don’t hold your breath. Art’s a complainer, not an explainer.
Delany could have set up a deal with the Pittsburgh Steelers, but it wouldn’t mean anything unless the Presidents approved it. And the Big Ten Presidents are a very selective lot. The background on the Big Ten and Texas/Notre Dame is too involved to get into great detail here, but here are the CliffsNotes.
The only time the Big Ten “screwed it up” with respect to “Texas and Notre Dame” was in the early 1990s when Texas was looking for a home while the SWC was imploding. Texas’s first choice was the Pac 10. The Pac-10 actually had a vote on admitting Texas, but needed unanimous approval. Stanford voted against admitting Texas, so then Texas approached the Big Ten. There was mutual interest on both sides, but the Big Ten Presidents had a 4 year moratorium on expansion after inviting Penn State which wouldn’t run out till June of 1994.
Kansas and Missouri were also begging the Big Ten for a bid at the time, but the Big Ten Presidents stood firm and allowed Texas to go to the Big 12. If you could say the Big Ten “screwed up”, it was then when Texas was literally begging us for a bid.
The 2010 situation is a different story. Texas was playing us against the Pac-12 and Larry Scott (the Pac 12 Commissioner) to see who could give them a better deal. Although Delany wanted Texas, the Big Ten Presidents didn’t want some of the baggage that came along with it (Texas Tech). Delany was OK with Texas going to the Pac 10/12 along with Oklahoma, Colorado, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech, because it would add all 6 of those schools to the Rose Bowl coalition (the new contract was being negotiated).
Delany already had Nebraska on board. If Texas would have taken the other 5 schools out West, he was ready to give Missouri and Rutgers a bid. But Texas was more or less playing Scott for a sucker. Texas used the Pac 10/12 threat as leverage to negotiate the LHN deal with ESPN. Texas wanted their own Network, and ESPN didn’t want the Big 12 to implode, and send all that valuable property out to Larry Scott while he was in the process of negotiating his first tier rights.
In short, no matter what Delany wanted to do with Texas, the Presidents would have never voted for a Texas Tech.
Regarding Notre Dame, Delany wasn’t even alive when the problems started with Notre Dame. It all goes back to the early 1900’s which I’m not going to get into a lot of detail here. Suffice it to say that Notre Dame fans and alumni are butt hurt that they were repeatedly turned down for Big Ten membership over the years. Rockne campaigned over and over again for membership, and was rebuffed. Some Notre Damers think it was because they were a Catholic Institution, and are still pi$$ed.
The Notre Dame Faculty absolutely love us. But the knucklehead fanbase and alumni hate us. In 1999, the Notre Dame Faculty Senate (the academics) voted 25 to 4 to join the Big Ten. However, the Board of Trustees, under heavy pressure from the alumni and the donors, voted no.
We have talked with Notre Dame over the years off and on, but there would be an absolute mutiny from their fan base, alumni, and donors if they joined us. The smartest thing Delany did was, unlike the Big 12, move on from Notre Dame, and pull the trigger on Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers.
Notre Dame’s prima donna demands have helped destroy one league (Big East), and is starting to cause increasing fractures in another (ACC). The Big 12 screwed up getting Clemson with Florida State before the ACC signed their GOR because Texas puppet master DeLoss Dodds and a couple of puppet Big 12 Commissioners were being played for fools by Notre Dame's Jack Swarbrick. If the Big 12 would have acted on Clemson and Florida State when they had the chance instead of waiting for Notre Dame, the Big 12 wouldn't be in the situation they are in right now.
The Big Ten Presidents are not going to bend over like the ACC is for a research lightweight like Notre Dame. Full membership with no special privileges???? Sure. But Notre Dame would have to agree to be an equal partner, which they won’t.
