All of you critical of Clint Hurdle, note this rating.

[PSU-Knocker]

Like all ratings, it's subjective, however, this appears to be independent of local biases.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13186480/who-mlb-best-manager-survey-says

 

[bjf1984]

Like all ratings, it's subjective, however, this appears to be independent of local biases.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13186480/who-mlb-best-manager-survey-says

FWIW - my personal opinion is that Hurdle is a VERY good "manager". One of the best.

I also think that - in baseball - "managing" a team is more important than the "tactical" stuff (the opposite of the situation for football coaches)

I do also think his game-day tactical stuff is awful......and if he could appoint a "game day decision maker" it would be the best of both worlds.

If I had to choose between a guy like Hurdle, or a tactical genius who didn't have any people skills..........I'd take Hurdle every day.

 

[Wexford Buckeye]

I'm a huge Pirate fan from childhood. (Save the OSU/PSU stuff for another time). I like Hurdle and think his outlook is tremendous. He sees the big picture and manages toward that - player attitudes, rest, positive, etc. But sometimes he doesn't see the small picture and his game day management is questionable at times. There have been days where a critical game was within reach, but he refused to budge on player rest. He rarely, until the last few games went to much smallball, trying to advance just one runner closer to get a win. He seems to trust putting the system in motion and let it work for him rather than take specific actions to do whatever it takes to win a game.

Other than a few nitpicking complaints like mine, I think he is one of the best.

 

[91Joe95]

The Pirates are big into analytics, and Hurdle not only buys into it, but implements it religiously, which you have to do to get its full benefit.

 

[wbcincy]

The Pirates are big into analytics, and Hurdle not only buys into it, but implements it religiously, which you have to do to get its full benefit.

And this deserves a lot of credit. There are plenty of old managers who stubbornly refuse to accept analytics.

 

[Thorndike2012]

The only problem I have with Hurdle is how he manages his pitchers. I've seen him pull a guy way too soon, and I've seen him leave a guy in way too long. I just don't understand what he's thinking/doing out there some nights. Now tonight the fans were calling for Morton's head in the third, but Clint stuck with him. I agreed with that. Some others...not so much.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

And this deserves a lot of credit. There are plenty of old managers who stubbornly refuse to accept analytics.

He's a guy I would have thought was old school like Scioscia and I think he has adepted well. You guys are lucky to have him. Some guys would burn their own house down before they recognized that the game does have a chess element to it now.

 

[Stargellfan]

It would be pretty hard for anybody to be too critical of Clint Hurdle. No manager is perfect,but he is the perfect manager for this team. Analytics are an important part of baseball and they have certainly played an important role in the Pirates success, but it is important that a manager has a feel for the game and is able to manage from the gut when it is called for.

 

[OMPats13]

Clubhouse chemistry is a big part of the baseball season over 162 games. He was able to get that part of the job figured out early. Management was smart enough to get Russell Martin, Francisco Liriano and AJ Burnett to help nurture the youngsters and Hurdle let guys like Harrison and Marte grow into their roles. Agree the pitching decisions are a little suspect at times but otherwise he's been very good

 

[auxgym]

Anyone that doesn't think Clint is the best thing since Chuck is sniffing glue!

 

[Stargellfan]

The only problem I have with Hurdle is how he manages his pitchers. I've seen him pull a guy way too soon, and I've seen him leave a guy in way too long. I just don't understand what he's thinking/doing out there some nights. Now tonight the fans were calling for Morton's head in the third, but Clint stuck with him. I agreed with that. Some others...not so much.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I am not sure if it is a Hurdle problem as much as it is indicative of the way baseball is managed by everybody today. Take yesterday as an example. Jeff Locke had retired 19 batters in a row and had only thrown 89 pitches. There was no good reason to take him out of the game other than that is just what you do in today's baseball.

 

[auxgym]

No reason not to take him out .......really???????? He has never completed a game in his career. That might be one reason to take him out?????? That's one reason. The second reason might be the guy warming up in the bull pen leads the league in saves at 26 and hasn't allowed a run in 25 appearances. .........And the monday morning quarterbacks still know more. Make me laugh

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Take yesterday as an example. Jeff Locke had retired 19 batters in a row and had only thrown 89 pitches. There was no good reason to take him out of the game other than that is just what you do in today's baseball.

I think you're over-simplifying. These managers are in constant contact with their pitcher, their catcher, the pitching coach and the individual measuring pitch speed and they make decisions based on the inputs. Locke was likely removed because his pitches were not as lively as earlier. With a one run lead, Melancon was a fresh alternative with a history of finishing the game with a positive outcome. Hurdle took the more safe route.

 

[Stargellfan]

No reason not to take him out .......really???????? He has never completed a game in his career. That might be one reason to take him out?????? That's one reason. The second reason might be the guy warming up in the bull pen leads the league in saves at 26 and hasn't allowed a run in 25 appearances. .........And the monday morning quarterbacks still know more. Make me laugh

Lighten up Francis! I wasn't being that critical of Hurdle, but it bothers me that guy's are not allowed to finish games anymore. Locke had retired 19 batters in a row. He had only thrown 89 pitches and Hurdle himself said after the game he was not sure if he made the right decision.I love Malancon,but the only reason Locke has not finished any games is because he is not allowed to. My criticism is not directed at Hurdle as much as it is directed at the way the game is managed by almost everybody today.

 

[Stargellfan]

I think you're over-simplifying. These managers are in constant contact with their pitcher, their catcher, the pitching coach and the individual measuring pitch speed and they make decisions based on the inputs. Locke was likely removed because his pitches were not as lively as earlier. With a one run lead, Melancon was a fresh alternative with a history of finishing the game with a positive outcome. Hurdle took the more safe route.

While you make some good points. I don't think I am over simplifying things in this case. If Locke or even Cervelli had gone to Hurdle and said that Locke was done,I would be in complete agreement with the decision to remove him. That was obviously not the case because Hurdle said after the game that he was not sure if he made the right decision to remove Locke. Starters,for the most part, are not allowed to finish games anymore and I hate that. I realize that Clint Hurdle did what the vast majority of mangers would have done in the same situation,because that is simply what you do in today's game. That does not mean I have to like it.

 

[bison13]

99% of MLB pitchers would have wanted to finish that game, I assume Locke wanted to as well. Unless the analytics and matchups said otherwise he should have let him at least start the inning. The reason starters dont finish games is that managers dont let them, not because they cant. Imagine him not letting AJ Burnett finish the game, there would have been a riot.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

While you make some good points. I don't think I am over simplifying things in this case. If Locke or even Cervelli had gone to Hurdle and said that Locke was done,I would be in complete agreement with the decision to remove him. That was obviously not the case because Hurdle said after the game that he was not sure if he made the right decision to remove Locke. Starters,for the most part, are not allowed to finish games anymore and I hate that. I realize that Clint Hurdle did what the vast majority of mangers would have done in the same situation,because that is simply what you do in today's game. That does not mean I have to like it.

"Nice guys finish last." Hurdle could have been a nice guy and let Locke try to finish. If Locke had a three or four run lead, Hurdle would have probably left him in. With a one run lead and a fresh established closure out of the pen, you don't make emotional decisions. You go with the logical decision likely buttressed by the inputs of the pitcher (himself), the catcher, the pitching coach and the guy measuring the pitch velocity.

I don't want a manager who makes emotional decisions, I want one who makes logical decisions. As fans we can make the emotional decisions. However, if he let Locke stay in and the Pirates had lost, many fans would be saying "why did he leave Locke in after he had already pitched eight innings and with only a one run lead while he had Melancon in the pen with an established record of finishing games."

 

[Stargellfan]

We could go on with this forever, but where did I say anything about Hurdle being a nice guy? Or that my frustration is based on my emotional desire for Locke to complete the game because he "deserved" it. I am simply tired of seeing starters pulled when they are cruising only to see the bullpen immediately give up the lead. It happened to Liriano a few weeks ago when he was pulled after six innings. No bullpen is perfect and blown saves are going to happen and it doesn't mean the manager was wrong to turn the game over to the bullpen. I understand why Hurdle went to Melancon. I also know that Hurdle does not like to bring Melancon in in the middle of an inning. I get all of that,but I don't think Hurdle's decision had anything to do with any of the factors that you mentioned. He said as much after the game. He went with Melancon because it is his job to close the game regardless of how well the starter is pitching.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

He said as much after the game. He went with Melancon because it is his job to close the game regardless of how well the starter is pitching.

Yeah, that's Clint Hurdle. It's part of what makes him a good manager. He will always say what his team wants and likes to hear. That makes his team feel good and it helps to ameliorate potential hard feelings.

 

[MrDibbs]

I was neither at, watching or listening to the game ... my views on Locke are that he gets into a little trouble with his control and then all hell breaks loose. They had a 1 run lead and one swing could have killed an otherwise great outing for the kid. Since Melancon did his JOB, the decision was the correct one and only Locke's parents should be upset that he didn't get a complete game.

I like Hurdle. Sometimes he frustrates me (mostly with these pitching decisions), but he has his finger on the team's pulse and apparently makes some pretty good decisions about who plays where on a day-to-day basis.

The Pirates have been blessed so far this season with good/great pitching by their starters and a lack of season ending injuries to their key players. If the fortunes continue, they will stay in the hunt. If not, then the world will see how good of a manager Clint Hurdle is.